Variant Replacement Discussion.

[Leeko]

Time for my Atlas!

Atlas B

*snip*

YESSSS. A real manly man's Atlas. Me like.

Variant B Hawkmoth

Setup
2x DualSSRM4
1x TAG Laser No.
GECM, C3

*snip*

A Hawkmoth with SRMs would be wonderful; I imagine it would be a good deal more fun to use than the 20 LRM one, which currently is the only variant worth piloting IMHO.

[=KoS= Eldragon]

Honestly, a 2xMRM20 hawkmoth is what I would be most interested in. Guide those missiles in via the mouse pointer from 500+ meters out--a more useful range than SRMs. When I'm in a VTOL, I try not to get inside 350 meters of anything.

[=KoS=Zeus]

Atlas A - While I used it a few times in 0.2, I haven't touched it in 0.3 or higher. It's "the other cheap one" and apparently designed with long to mid range combat in mind. Unfortunately, at these ranges, keeping fire on a target is difficult at best since they will be ducking behind cover. If the role of the mech is to keep a single enemy mech's head down, then it does the job admirably, but the job of an assault mech should be to smash into the enemy lines and obliterate them (which the C does quite well). Thus, I propose the following to return the Atlas to its roots and its role of a multi-range fighter, but a close-range monster.

Atlas A has ~45 tons of weaponry. We'll keep the heat sink, electronics and dual AMS

2 ER Large Lasers (10 tons) 1 on each arm
1 Dual SRM-6 (6 tons) left hip
1 Ultra AC/20 (16 tons) right hip
2 LRM-10s (10 tons) left and right missile bins
3 tons of ammo

The extra tons of ammo let you arm yourself for long range fighting (2 tons of LRM ammo and the AC/20) or for short range combat (2 tons of AC/20 and 1 of SRMs), or 1 ton of each SRMs, AC/20, and LRMs. This Atlas fills out a support and assault role by providing LRM support fire at range and to add weight to a missile barrage aimed at a Narced target. This is backed up by a pair of ER Large Lasers at long range. As the mech closes the lasers can be opted out for the cooler rapid firing of the dual SRM-6 and the Ultra AC/20 to send enemies fleeing in a panic.

[xInVicTuSx]

You complain about not being able to keep the RAC on target, and then put a TAG laser on it? What? 

I can't say I understand the idea behind an assault mech with a NARC system though.  If you're going to focus on NARC, use a light or an ASF/VTOL.

Because it is more efficient to have a 3 ton NARC launcher on an atlas than a 35 ton walking launcher, namely the Raven.
That mech is supposed to be a command/support mech, that way it doesn't need a Raven or air support, it can dictate the battle itself, it sacrifices a bit of firepower to do this. 

[CHHš Sturmadler]

Changing the Prime variants to be less like their cbt counterparts is NOT happening.

[RepleX-TA]

In 0.1 there was Hawk Moth ERPPC 2LRM5 which was very powerfull against some light/medium mechs and even BAs!
I don't know why devs replaced it with UAC5 2SRM4 variant.

I think it may be:

ERPPC
2SRM4

Main weapon is ERPPC and 2SRM4 for close support fire.

[Zakatak]

Variant B Hawkmoth

Why it sucks
The RAC5 is a bad weapon if you cannot hit your target, quite simply. The Moth is not a very stable firing platform so keeping your crosshair on a target while being evasive is difficult. The LRM10 version is better, yes, better close up then the RAC version.

Setup
2x DualSSRM4
1x TAG Laser
GECM, C3


Why?
This is the... err... brawler Hawkmoth, and also the stealth variant. Float where the enemies can't see or detect you and use you TAG laser. Its also good for circle strafing big mechs and wearing them down with the SRM's.

You complain about not being able to keep the RAC on target, and then put a TAG laser on it? What? 

Well with TAG your not really trying to dodge enemy fire because your hidden, and you don't need active radar on (unless you can dumb fire a NARC really well) to use it. NARC is better but this variant is based on stealth which a TAG would work well.

Though I agree with the 2x MRM20 statement

[Rally]

Also I would like to support Haarp, don't fapp with the prime variants. Ever.

We will disagree then. But I know I'm right, I've used both. Others seem to know as well, as I rarely see either of these mechs used by others. They are the least used variant of each chassis. It's simply true. Anyway, every time I see the enemy use either of them, I'm glad. They are both easy to destroy. They may be beautifully close to the originals but that doesn't change the fact that the game was rebuilt in such a way to make them horribly ineffective. Must I explain more? I'm pretty sure I already did that somewhere.

Changing the Prime variants to be less like their cbt counterparts is NOT happening.

Why not? Will you change the game in such a way to make them useful again?

[ratbuddy]

Put DHS on the Awesomes, and maybe some of the Maulers. That is all.

[xInVicTuSx]

Also I would like to support Haarp, don't fapp with the prime variants. Ever.

We will disagree then. But I know I'm right, I've used both. Others seem to know as well, as I rarely see either of these mechs used by others. They are the least used variant of each chassis. It's simply true. Anyway, every time I see the enemy use either of them, I'm glad. They are both easy to destroy. They may be beautifully close to the originals but that doesn't change the fact that the game was rebuilt in such a way to make them horribly ineffective. Must I explain more? I'm pretty sure I already did that somewhere.

You are correct on the Vulture prime, the heat is horrid and you are correct on the fact that Primes are often the weakest variant and to keep them weak for the reason of "dont fapp with the primes" while enjoying the Primes that are dominant is having your cake and eating it too.

Thus why I'm not up in arms to change the Bushwacker Prime, I would rather see the devs change the behavior of the LRM5s and Mguns first and then judge its usefulness. Same thing with ALL the PPC variants. You have a point, but I don't understand your logic on the Madcat Prime, it is a beast, the only Madcat I use, is it because most players prefer the direct fire variants (because they are point and fire easy and LRM's are simply looked down upon) so you don't see many of them?
You said you've used it before, please remind me why you don't like it.
I GUESS I could keep the Thanatos prime and just change the A and B. The C is the only one worth anything now.

@rat, why not the Atlas? The Awesome has so many Heatsinks it might not have the crits to fit them as doubles.
I don't want them to be pasted over everything, I want the option to be open rather than only clan gets double heatsinks and they are just flat out better, that is not accurate and not fair.

[snooggums]

I can't say I understand the idea behind an assault mech with a NARC system though.  If you're going to focus on NARC, use a light or an ASF/VTOL.

An assault or any other mech who uses missiles can NARC their own targets, I plan on adding NARC to any missile heavy mechs I would create in the mechlab since MWLL has the NARC range match LRMs instead of being about half of that in CBT.

[HAARP]

There is no Bushwacker Prime. Or Atlas Prime. Or any IS mech Prime. fapp that concept, it doesn't work on IS mechs.
So keep messing with those for all I care

[Rally]

You said you've used it before, please remind me why you don't like it.

At long range, the LRM lock on time totally kills it. Enemies will often be in cover before you get a lock. Not really worth the bother, At short range, the lack of heatsinks also kills it. The lasers simply don't put out enough damage to destroy a serious enemy. To sum it up, ineffective at any range. Anyway, that's just my view, I know there are lot's of people around here that think this mech is awesome.

But why would I buy it instead of the Nova Cat Prime is totally beyond me. Is there a reason? If so, please tell me.

[dCK-Ad_Hominem]

You said you've used it before, please remind me why you don't like it.

At long range, the LRM lock on time totally kills it. Enemies will often be in cover before you get a lock. Not really worth the bother, At short range, the lack of heatsinks also kills it. The lasers simply don't put out enough damage to destroy a serious enemy. To sum it up, ineffective at any range. Anyway, that's just my view, I know there are lot's of people around here that think this mech is awesome.

But why would I buy it instead of the Nova Cat Prime is totally beyond me. Is there a reason? If so, please tell me.

The Timber Wolf Prime is, in contrast to the Nova Cat able to deny the enemy access to a wide part of the mao without the overhating issues of the Nova Cat (at least on maps other than frostbite). I agree that it does not have the kill potential as the NC, on the other hand it does not have to. IMO the mech serves the function of a guard and fire supporter at which it is not matched by any other. You can seriously harm or even kill anything at long distance. Bas do not stand a chance, tanks will dissolve in your missile blasts, Aeros must watch out for your lasers. It does not pack as much punch against mechs as compareable mechs, but it serves its function just right.

[EvilMD]

Honestly, a 2xMRM20 hawkmoth is what I would be most interested in. Guide those missiles in via the mouse pointer from 500+ meters out--a more useful range than SRMs. When I'm in a VTOL, I try not to get inside 350 meters of anything.

Would that not be overweight?


I can't believe someone complained about the Mad Cat Prime. I deliver so much hurt with that mech. I'll write up my "This variant sucks" post later.