Various Aero-related Idears

[(TLL) Heretic]

As well as degredation of control surfaces (slower turning&climb on wing damage) & Engine output (as Kit suggested)I'd love to see shake applied to ASF.  It's one of the key ASF rules in CBT, that, when ASF operate within a gravity well (like when in an atmosphere) that they can easily loss control of the craft and crash due to damage from 'mech class weapons.  Now I'm sure somebody can quote me the exact rules from CBT, but from what I remember getting hit by large lasers and PPCs required a pilot to make a skill roll or crash the ASF.

This rules for ASF in CBT, could be simulated in MWLL by adding shake from ALL weapon hits, the bigger the damage, the heavier the shake, you'll probably never crash because of it in MWLL, but it'll throw you off a bombing run perhaps...after all it's not like you've got toes to dig-in and a huge gyro to keep you upright like a 'mech has, a ASF is inherently unstable, and almost all hits from medium or heavy weapons should cause the pilot control problems, above and beyond any addition control issues from damage sustained.

EDIT: Oh, almost forgot, add GLOC to the flight model. Nebfers latest posts in BTU sub-forum give us some guidelines for what levels of G a pilot in a 31stC flightsuit can withstand; for example: give pilots red-outs at 12G and blackouts for anything above 15G turns and the current ASF 360 dogfights are gone, plus the GLoC can be linked to the global gravity of a map, making insane manouvers possible only on low G worlds.  We'd still have machines vastly more manouverable than the modern day equivalents, but it would be far more real for those on the ground and in the air I think.

[(TLL)ShdNx]

Heretic: really interesting ideas! I'll certainly promote the idea.

One thing to keep in mind though is that ASF is "only" a 3rd element in the game, along with tanks and mechs. That means that it needs to balanced, not only versus the other two parties, but also in complexity.
We certainly don't want this game to have significantly more focus on ASF than on tanks for example (mechs, by the nature of the game are in a privilaged position so to speak).

That being said, keep the ideas flowing!

[Squibby]

Is it possible to implement angle of attack based stall characteristics?

Essentially pulling crazy high AoA turns on a dime would cause the plane to stall and fall out of the sky. This could be implemented in a simple sense by increasing the 'stall percentage' based on the difference in the planes movement vector and the pilots pitch input.

You could still pull tight turns (possibly not quite as tight as you currently have) but the pilot couldn't just yank and bank into them, they'd need to apply a gradual increase in pitch to keep their AoA in check. Of course thats when the GLOC effects would kick in...

Also high AoA maneuvers should reduce airspeed (not sure if this happens currently either).

I'm no aerodynamics whizz, but planes should not be able to go near vertical almost instantly without dropping out of the sky.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Is it possible to implement angle of attack based stall characteristics?

AFAIK? No.

I'm no aerodynamics whizz, but planes should not be able to go near vertical almost instantly without dropping out of the sky.

Pugachev's Cobra? Ok ok... it's not about going up but still...

#
The G-Induced Loss of Consciousness should be really cool feature, and easy to implement, perhaps even solely in flash.

[Brainwright]

Yes, it's a simple fact that people are getting too good with those bloody aerospace.  Simple reaction speed isn't a good balancing factor, because video game players have proven time and time again that they can pull off crazy shit so long as they have a good machine, a good connection, and a bit of dedication.  So we either limit their awareness (G-LOC) or we limit the machine (stalling).

As far as stalling is concerned, doing a sudden, 360 degree turn should stall you.  You're essentially killing your velocity for a second or so.  Unfortunately, as with all assets, you keep your velocity no matter how fast you turn,

[Dead]

...plus the GLoC can be linked to the global gravity of a map, making insane manouvers possible only on low G worlds.

The so-called G-Force is the acceleration of the object, divided by gravity (9,81 m/s²). The only case where the gravity matters is with the vertical axis, and with standard earth gravity it would make less than 10% difference at the critical points (12G and 15G).

[(TLL) Heretic]

@Dead, 10% could be a large margin to the pilot..would make maps like Extremity feel totally different to the pilot.

The Critical points (12G and 15G in modern day flightsuits), are actually much higher in Battletech, it'd be closer to 25G and 30G for those points IIRC from what Nebfer was quoting in his thread....so those ASF are still going to be insanely manouverable by modern standards, even with G-LoC.

[Digital Communist]

Suggestion. Make the Shiva, Sulla, and sparrowhawk fly at semi believable speeds (Really? Shiva needs to tuck its wings back for a mind shattering speed of 285kph/177mph ?)

After making them faster than WWII fighter aircraft (P-51D, most common Mustang, had a top speed of 703kph/437mph thereabouts) decrease their armor so that noobs who can't lead can still have a chance to kill them. But as it stands all aeros are pathetically slow.

And don't start with the 'oh its 85 tons so the shiva should be slow!'. Its an AeroSPACE fighter. Implying that it can reach escape velocity. In fact, Nebfer posted the shiva's actual speeds, along with every other aero in CBT here

http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/forum/index.php/topic,5632.0.html

Name: SHV-O Shiva
Date in service: 3060
Operator: FWL & Word of Blake
Empty Weight: 27.5 tons
Mass: 85 tons
Max Take off weight: 102 tons
Power plant: 255 XL Fusion rated at 3,334kN (749,571 lbf)
Acceleration: 4Gs (5/8)
Climb Rate: 600m/s or more
Service Celing: Unlimited
Max Low altitude speed (0-17km): 1,800 kph (mach 1.7)
Max High altitude speed (+72km): 10,800 kph (Mach 8.19)
Fuel load: 5 tons +8.5 tons with droptanks
Max Ferry Range: 14,400km (38,880km with droptanks)
Max Interplanitary/Space range: 5,143,820 km
Max Endurance: 80 to 400min (420 to 1080 min with droptanks)
Armor mass: 10 tons Ferro-aluminum
External ordnance:
Radar Range: 10,000km
Weapons: Omnifighter
Prime config: 1x LB 20-X AC w/2t ammo, 1x SRM 6 w/2t ammo, 1x ER Small Laser, 4x Large Pulse Lasers

So please, I'd like for the shiva to be faster than a space biplane.

[Kyatlu]

I believe aero speed is restricted by map size rather than the reluctancy of diffuculty to leading aa shots. Not exactly sure what's on devs' mind though.

[xInVicTuSx]

That brings up a few problems though, one is controlling it in such a small map area, two risking an increased lag shield if it gets too fast, and three is landing the thing.
It would have to be a speed increase that helps the thing not hurts it, remember too that speed doesn't necessarily mean maneuverability.

[Taemien]

I believe aero speed is restricted by map size rather than the reluctancy of diffuculty to leading aa shots. Not exactly sure what's on devs' mind though.

Pretty much this.

Though I would like to see the turning radius of a Sparrowhawk be like the Sulla, the Sulla like the Shiva, and the Shiva like Shamu with triplets.

This isn't to make Aero easier to hit. On the contrary it would make them easier to control for the pilot. I can't use a sparrowhawk since you just can't line up a target at 40% throttle. I can barely do it on the Sulla and the Shiva is just right in the good spot.

[Digital Communist]

I believe aero speed is restricted by map size rather than the reluctancy of diffuculty to leading aa shots. Not exactly sure what's on devs' mind though.

Pretty much this.

Though I would like to see the turning radius of a Sparrowhawk be like the Sulla, the Sulla like the Shiva, and the Shiva like Shamu with triplets.

This isn't to make Aero easier to hit. On the contrary it would make them easier to control for the pilot. I can't use a sparrowhawk since you just can't line up a target at 40% throttle. I can barely do it on the Sulla and the Shiva is just right in the good spot.

Although I still think they are all too slow, I agree about the maneuverability. The Sparrowhawk feels like I'm flying on crack and is extremely hard to use. Sulla as it stands now is what i think should be high end for maneuverability. Hopefully when the Visigoth is released the Sulla will take on more of a light aero role.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

And don't start with the 'oh its 85 tons so the shiva should be slow!'. Its an AeroSPACE fighter. Implying that it can reach escape velocity.

Lets not get crazy here. Aerospace means they can be used within the atmosphere of planet and in space. Even aero's still use dropships for proper deployment.

As for speed, how about we just change the indicator? Will that suit you? An aero zipping around at mach 1 on these maps isnt going to be of use to anyone. This is one of those instances where CBT just does not translate to a videogame. Everyone who compares them to biplanes is being ridiculous.

[Digital Communist]

And don't start with the 'oh its 85 tons so the shiva should be slow!'. Its an AeroSPACE fighter. Implying that it can reach escape velocity.

Lets not get crazy here. Aerospace means they can be used within the atmosphere of planet and in space. Even aero's still use dropships for proper deployment.

As for speed, how about we just change the indicator? Will that suit you? An aero zipping around at mach 1 on these maps isnt going to be of use to anyone. This is one of those instances where CBT just does not translate to a videogame. Everyone who compares them to biplanes is being ridiculous.

Its not ridiculous. The shiva and to a lesser extent sulla and sparrowhawk are pathetically slow. I'm not asking for their actual speeds in CBT to be implemented but 285 kph (Shiva) is very slow for anything that flies. I'd be more than happy to see a decrease in armor for an increase in velocity.

[Colonel Drego]

Up all aero assets to around 1000 kp/h maximum velocity, just like in BF2. It worked in those fine, and with this game's much better AAA weapons and reduced aero armor to compensate for the speed increase, there won't be any problems.