Author Topic: Playing AA is so lame  (Read 3735 times)

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Offline Rogue

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Playing AA is so lame
« on: August 03, 2010, 11:09:13 AM »
spent about an hour to day watching Aerospace behave like flying saucier while shooting at them, frustrating to say the least. I applaud the developers for doing a decent job to incorporate them it to a game engine that not designed for air assets. However watching VTOL turn up side down less then 300 m above ground to avoid being hit, and having to spend the whole game shooting at planes so that they don't completely dominate a map is not any fun. I'm also not going to climb in a air asset ether, cause if I wanted to fly I would chose a game where the engine designed with some Idea of realism for handling flight. In no means is this a reflection of remaining part of the game, the Mech to Mech combat and the rest of the ground combat is AWESOME, aside from a few tweaks.

now that I've given my opinion I would like to here others, as I am trying to decide weather or not, and how to recommend this game to a few friends 10 or so. As I know that the air combat is stuff is going to be a major issue for them,(plane combat buffs) if it stays as is it would be incredibly frustrating to several of them.

Offline ~SJ~ Wolf

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2010, 11:46:43 AM »
1. This is a beta release. It's not done. Your judgments are entirely too harsh especially considering how awesome most of the mod is.

2. Your "choice" not to play aero  is yours. This is a combined arms mod. Accept that on most maps its a land and air battle, and that some AA needs to happen. If you don't want to do it, ask your 'mates Most games

3. Crysis netcode is terrible. Usually unless the server ping is high, shooting aero down is not hard. If the ping of the player, or the server is too high tho, you will see aero "popping" all over. Ignore them, and focus on the ground assets. 

4. Lastly, aero is extremely bugging. Sudden Pilot Deaths happen, random explodes before take off happen. This is a work in progress and if you already own Crysis it's freaking free for you to play.  If they own Crysis it's silly for you not to suggest the mod. Let your friends decide on their own. They have brains of their own.

These guys dedicated thousands of hours to this mod, and you should be grateful at all that they have brought such high quality to the table.

Offline (TLL) Heretic

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 11:48:50 AM »
It's a Beta.

*Opps The Wolf beat me too it.*

Beta means they're working on stuff and it's not a final release, wait for final release if you get annoyed at the beta.


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Offline [MPB]OM_Sannyasi

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 01:31:54 PM »
i hate air but they are an essential part of the  game..... 2 things i love more though- 1. shooting them down 2. watching them crash into stuff for a good lol


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Offline -SM-SUCKER

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 01:46:45 PM »
Playing AA can be serious fun. Yeah, it might not be as satisfying as playing in a mech, but the occasional aero kill is definatly worth it. And the sound of 4+AC firing is already enough for me to choose AA from time to time.

Offline ~SJ~KorbinWimmer

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 02:27:03 PM »
I accidentally bought a Huit prime early in a match (5mins in ish).  And let me tell you.... you're the king of the battlefield with that thing, that early on.  Being effective against air is just a sweet perk :D!
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Offline sleepysheep

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 02:28:50 PM »
Whenever I go AA (Happens to often) as soon as I blow up that first Aero, I literally do a little cheer at my computer desk, and say take that biatch!  Well thats how annoying aero's are, and finally getting that kill feels oh so rewarding :D
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Offline NSallaNuto

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2010, 03:35:54 PM »
He is right in that playing AA is kind of boring. You are everybody's easy kill, including your supposed target. Patch 0.3.2 made things a little better but didn't address the real problem IMO.

AA tanks need to receive some kind of extra help, double LAMS and AECM as example. That would make the team more wanting to protect the asset.

BTW, I know, work in progress.

Offline sgnl05

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2010, 03:45:23 PM »
1. This is a beta release. It's not done. Your judgments are entirely too harsh especially considering how awesome most of the mod is.

The fact that it's a beta is a perfectly good excuse for things being the way they are, but it isn't a reason not to talk about them. We have long threads about various other aspects of the mod not being as fun as they could be, or broken or unbalanced or whatever, why can't we have one about this? It's constructive criticism and I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

And before anyone says anything, he's talking about AA not being fun, which is a completely seperate issue from balance and one that hasn't been discussed nearly as much.

Anyway, I tend to agree a bit. AA can be fun sometimes and there's certainly plenty of satisfaction to be had downing the odd aero pilot, but as often as not it can be dead boring and I think a lot of the time it's a role that people play because they have to, rather than because they want to.

Being able to pop BA and plink away at mechs are nice perks and help to keep things interesting when there aren't any aerospace around to be sure, but the problem with this is that a lot of good ASF pilots will run passive either all the time or as much as they can possibly get away with, so if you're focussing on the ground and just relying on the odd glance at your radar to warn you of incoming ASF you're running the risk of missing that passive sulla or shiva swooping down on you before you even know he's there. Since your best opportunity to kill ASF is when they're doing their run, this isn't something you can afford to let happen very often, if at all. The obvious solution is to not rely on radar very much and simply to spend most of your time looking at the sky trying to eyeball aerospace as they get close, but a lot of the time this basically amounts to cloudwatching; you spend five minutes staring at an empty sky on the offchance that an aerospace will decide to start a run on you or a teammate that will last maybe 30 seconds, probably less. This is kind of a lot to ask of a player that quite possibly joined the server so he could run around in a mech.

Another problem is that often your job isn't so much to kill ASF as just to keep them away. Bad pilots might be content to do suicide runs into your guns but the good ones will realise pretty quickly that if they can't get close to you without dying, then they're better of not getting close to you at all. The funny thing is that the better an AA gunner you are, the more likely this is to be the case, and the less likely any ASF is to come within range. In this situation your role is basically "be in one area of the map so the ASF pilots can't be" which amounts to doing absolutely nothing... at all. Of course you could shoot at some BA or mechs but if you do this too much you risk running into the above problem with passive ASF.

If you keep this up for long enough you might be rewarded with the ASF pilots getting bored and switching to mechs, in which case you're free to play something more interesting yourself, but if you do that for too long said pilots might realise you're not in AA anymore and switch right back to aerospace, in which case the whole business starts over.

So yeah, it's not exactly the most rewarding or thrilling thing you can do in MWLL, to say the least. The problem is how to make AA more interesting in a way that doesn't amount to huge buffs.
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Offline =KoS= Eldragon

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2010, 04:31:44 PM »
sgnl05 nailed it.  I agree with his comments, and I'll add 1 more point he did not cover:

The HUIT is slow and clunky to drive, and the partisan is only marginally better. So its not like the AAA gunner can just move to where the action is if the enemy aero decides to attack friendlies elsewhere on the map.

Only suggestion I could make at this time would be to have a new type of radar component (Terrier Active Probe?) that is exceptionally good at picking up Aero assets running passive. And/Or change a couple of the AAA variants to be a mix of AA guns and anti-vehicle weapons so they can do something else when the aero assets are driven off.

Offline CHHš Myria

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2010, 04:51:09 PM »

And before anyone says anything, he's talking about AA not being fun, which is a completely seperate issue from balance and one that hasn't been discussed nearly as much.

Anyway, I tend to agree a bit. AA can be fun sometimes and there's certainly plenty of satisfaction to be had downing the odd aero pilot, but as often as not it can be dead boring and I think a lot of the time it's a role that people play because they have to, rather than because they want to.

Being able to pop BA and plink away at mechs are nice perks and help to keep things interesting when there aren't any aerospace around to be sure, but the problem with this is that a lot of good ASF pilots will run passive either all the time or as much as they can possibly get away with, so if you're focussing on the ground and just relying on the odd glance at your radar to warn you of incoming ASF you're running the risk of missing that passive sulla or shiva swooping down on you before you even know he's there. Since your best opportunity to kill ASF is when they're doing their run, this isn't something you can afford to let happen very often, if at all. The obvious solution is to not rely on radar very much and simply to spend most of your time looking at the sky trying to eyeball aerospace as they get close, but a lot of the time this basically amounts to cloudwatching; you spend five minutes staring at an empty sky on the offchance that an aerospace will decide to start a run on you or a teammate that will last maybe 30 seconds, probably less. This is kind of a lot to ask of a player that quite possibly joined the server so he could run around in a mech.

Another problem is that often your job isn't so much to kill ASF as just to keep them away. Bad pilots might be content to do suicide runs into your guns but the good ones will realise pretty quickly that if they can't get close to you without dying, then they're better of not getting close to you at all. The funny thing is that the better an AA gunner you are, the more likely this is to be the case, and the less likely any ASF is to come within range. In this situation your role is basically "be in one area of the map so the ASF pilots can't be" which amounts to doing absolutely nothing... at all. Of course you could shoot at some BA or mechs but if you do this too much you risk running into the above problem with passive ASF.

If you keep this up for long enough you might be rewarded with the ASF pilots getting bored and switching to mechs, in which case you're free to play something more interesting yourself, but if you do that for too long said pilots might realise you're not in AA anymore and switch right back to aerospace, in which case the whole business starts over.

So yeah, it's not exactly the most rewarding or thrilling thing you can do in MWLL, to say the least. The problem is how to make AA more interesting in a way that doesn't amount to huge buffs.

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Offline sleepysheep

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2010, 05:03:17 PM »
sgnl05 nailed it.  I agree with his comments, and I'll add 1 more point he did not cover:

The HUIT is slow and clunky to drive, and the partisan is only marginally better. So its not like the AAA gunner can just move to where the action is if the enemy aero decides to attack friendlies elsewhere on the map.

Only suggestion I could make at this time would be to have a new type of radar component (Terrier Active Probe?) that is exceptionally good at picking up Aero assets running passive. And/Or change a couple of the AAA variants to be a mix of AA guns and anti-vehicle weapons so they can do something else when the aero assets are driven off.

I really really hope they are going to address all tanks movment, they move sooo slowly!! Huit can barley get out of the hanger on sandblasted, that ramp isn't that steep! If all the tanks, even if it was just the AA tanks, got some kind of speed boost, it would make them far more useful. Also extra electronics or LAMS etc, would make them more useful for sitting there doing nothing, at least they are helping the team without effecting how good they are against Aeros and ASF too much.

But doing all that could be way too much, going to need alot of testing ^^
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Offline Jaso the Sniper

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2010, 05:09:22 PM »
cant tanks go up to 125 km/h using turbo in a bug?

(and yes, I read it Colt)
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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2010, 05:13:14 PM »
agree that playing AA is a often time thankless grind of a job and there needs to be some mechanic to improve the experience.

Being able to move the AA tanks where their need is just part of it, I still like the idea of tanks being able to be "deployed" ala the LT for two reasons

1) STOP ROLLING DOWN ANY DECLINES, seriously annoying
2) maybe have bonuses to compensate for being immovable, ala the tank gains an ECM effect when deployed but it turns off when in normal mode.
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Offline sgnl05

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Re: Playing AA is so lame
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2010, 05:28:46 PM »
sgnl05 nailed it.  I agree with his comments, and I'll add 1 more point he did not cover:

The HUIT is slow and clunky to drive, and the partisan is only marginally better. So its not like the AAA gunner can just move to where the action is if the enemy aero decides to attack friendlies elsewhere on the map.

Only suggestion I could make at this time would be to have a new type of radar component (Terrier Active Probe?) that is exceptionally good at picking up Aero assets running passive. And/Or change a couple of the AAA variants to be a mix of AA guns and anti-vehicle weapons so they can do something else when the aero assets are driven off.

The problem with putting anti mech guns on AA is that if you're not careful you run the risk of them not having any counters. I don't know if you played the very first version of the mod (0.0.0 I guess it was called?) but it was before AC 5s were nerfed vs ground targets and the result was that most people would start the match with a partisan prime, since it could actually outshoot light mechs, slaughter BA and kill any aerospace that happened to be around. There was literally nothing in the same price bracket that could kill it unless the pilot stuffed up really badly.

I'm not saying that putting anti mech guns on AA is necessarily a bad idea, just that you'd have to be really careful how you did it. You can't make them too good at killing mechs or they become an anti-everything unit. It's just a really fine balance to strike I guess  :-\

I love the idea of a special radar for them though. Maybe it could work like a BHP vs anything in the air, but like regular radar against ground targets. I guess the net result of this would be that ASF could never sneak up on AA unless the AA pilot was spacing out, but the current cloudwatching arrangement is so unspeakably dull I think it's probably worth it.

And yeah, I think a speed increase for all AA units would remove a lot of frustration without unbalancing anything.

Giving AA AECM and LAMS is an interesting idea and would help make them more of a general support unit, but might fall into the "huge buffs" category of changes. I like the thinking behind it though. AA should be like the medic class in TF2; you might be more inclined to roll it if the enemy is using specific tactics or types (classes) of units, but there should always be some reason to have one on the field. Right now it's just something that people pull out when they're forced to, and then ditch as soon as they can. There's no incentive to take AA, just a disincentive to not take it under certain circumstances.
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