immersion

[zephoid]

one of the things i feel this mod lacks is a immersion. you feel like you are piloting a mech, but combat feels a bit weak. Two things i think would help make it feel like you are in the action better.
1: sounds. When hit with weapons, you can barely hear them. the ACs/UACs you hear a bit of tinking thats very light. the lasers you barely hear at all. even gauss rifles feel weak. If we could get some effects that sound like impacts with breaking or tearing metal that would be amazing. one of the reasons i loved the AiX mod for bf2 so much was solely for the sounds. the tank sounded so powerful when you shot it it felt like you could really do some damage. the LT shot sounds great right now, and if we could get the impact sounds for the other weapons to sound quality like that this game would be many times better.

2:knockback. When im hit with a AC20 shot, i expect it to hurt. i definitely should be recoiled my something that large. It would add a new factor to brawling and sniping if, when you are hit, it adds a twist in the direction of where you are hit. the more damage dealt, the more it twists. this is more for the ballistic weapons, but adding it for arrow missiles would still be pretty apt.

look at the  recoil from the AC20s and PPCs here. thats more like it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X5LP4hJu9k

[=KoS=Zeus]

With the fire rate on AC/20s and 10s right now, giving them massive knock around would cause rage quit like the SSRM Vulture already does. Imagine fighting an Atlas C and having a UAC/20 and 2 UAC/10s chain firing into you and knocking you around silly. You wouldn't even be able to shoot back. This takes a fun game play element to the extreme and turns it into a "cheap" tactic. Chain firing PPCs into someone doesn't lead to an infinite loop like SRMs and the proposed autocannon knock around would. Think of the children.

As for the other points. Yes, hit sound effects need work. Right now I can pick somebody apart with Large Lasers from a side angle and the enemy doesn't even know they are getting hit unless they happen to look at their damage display or notice the hit arrow on their HUD. Lasers are super heating the armor material and causing it to explode, there should be an explosion when they hit (Think of what happens to sodium when it's put into water, that's what a laser should be doing to armor plate. One moment it's solid armor, the next it's a rapidly expanding cloud of gas and plasma.) This would cause a big boom.

Gauss rifles will sometimes make a very loud *CLANG* when they hit you, and should probably cause knockback. Infinite chaining these is impossible due to RoF of the weapon.

[zephoid]

knockback on the ACs/PPC doesnt need to spin the torso much, just 2-5 degrees. just so you get the point that you Have been hit. also, that would actually make it a strategy like the hud distortion on PPCs now. in competitive MW4, LBX/MRM chaining for the knockback was very common. it actually worked because 1v1 a knockback mech usually did less damage and had less range than longer ramged mechs, but would make heavier weps miss more. this meant grouping up to destroy knockback mechs was a good strategy since you could only knock around 1 person. promoting teamork= good for gameplay.

[=KoS=Zeus]

I agree in theory, but in practice SSRM Vultures are plain and simply F@#%ing annoying. By the time you realize you are engaged with one it is too late, and no amount of teamwork is going to save you from it before it shreds you in half and then turns on your buddy.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

I agree in theory, but in practice SSRM Vultures are plain and simply F@#%ing annoying. By the time you realize you are engaged with one it is too late, and no amount of teamwork is going to save you from it before it shreds you in half and then turns on your buddy.

And I love it.

[Squibby]

The bushy and owens can do this to a limited extent, I've soloed a novacat in a bushy B by chain spamming my SRM6s. It's a great equaliser against mechs with powefull beam weapons because they're almost impossible to aim when your aim is being smacked around.

That being said it's hardly a massive advantage, the SRM vulture has a pathetic engagement range, and a well piloted light mech can take it out if it gets noticed on approach.

I second the idea for knock around effects (i.e not just client side cockpit shake) when taking hits with kinetic weapons. Small calibre ACs should cause a little cockpit shake, and the larger ones would knock your torso around slightly (not excessive as to be overpowered). Getting hit by guass weapons should cause a significant knock around effect and getting plastered by a massive LRM / MRM barrage should have you looking at your feet.

I know we can't have falling mechs but maybe it's possible to get slowed down (to simulate the mech having to stabilise itself) to eventually being knocked into a crouch (which you automatically rise from). Probably play hell with balance but it'd certainly add a new level of immersion.

[Kyatlu]

I'm also in for a knockback effect for the heaviest weaponry. In fact it may be so that heavy mechs can get less of a knock back and lights can get thrown around more easily. I've also prepared some gifs (way too much free time at my hand I guess).



Of course it doesn't make much sense with beam weapons but still




And for an idea of cokcpit view, as is also in the trailer op has posted




Instead of random shakes knockbacking and force twisting for some weapons would add to the game I think. On a related note, it would also be a good idea to slightly increase interval times for all missile weapons might also be a good idea.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Random idea:
AC/UAC20, all PPCs, Gauss and HGauss could have knock-back dependent on component they hit at - right torso and right arm would add torso rotation to right. Right leg hit would make Mech turn right. Same thing with legs. CT hit wouldn't do anything, so that this mechanism wouldn't be too annoying during the combat.

All mid and light weapons also wouldn't do anything to avoid tremble-spam, such as UAC Atlas which can spray ACs+SRMs in huge amount.

This way it'd be nice compromise between "immersion" and playability.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

I'm also in for a knockback effect for the heaviest weaponry. In fact it may be so that heavy mechs can get less of a knock back and lights can get thrown around more easily. I've also prepared some gifs (way too much free time at my hand I guess).



Of course it doesn't make much sense with beam weapons but still




And for an idea of cokcpit view, as is also in the trailer op has posted



Instead of random shakes knockbacking and force twisting for some weapons would add to the game I think. On a related note, it would also be a good idea to slightly increase interval times for all missile weapons might also be a good idea.

Why cant beam weapons cause a knockback? They are superheating metal and causing internal components to overheat and explode. Not every hit would cause it, but if the mod sported internal as well as external dmg, it would work perfectly.  As for your light mech comment, that also makes perfect sense, they have far less mass than a heavy or assault. The knockback should be variable depending on the placement of the shot,  the weight of the target, and the caliber of weapon.

[xInVicTuSx]

I would only want knockback for Gauss, AC20, and heavy knock back for Heavy Gauss and LBX20.
Keep cockpit shake for PPC those are too spammable and transfer heat as well, knockback would be annoying.

[Ingrater]

We have plans for a knockback, but we would need more Animators on the team for that. As we currently only have 1 animator, its not doable because of team resources.

[Kyatlu]

Why cant beam weapons cause a knockback? They are superheating metal and causing internal components to overheat and explode. Not every hit would cause it, but if the mod sported internal as well as external dmg, it would work perfectly.  As for your light mech comment, that also makes perfect sense, they have far less mass than a heavy or assault. The knockback should be variable depending on the placement of the shot,  the weight of the target, and the caliber of weapon.

Well yes the damage done by beam weapons are caused by heating, melting and vaporizing and also yes fast vaporizing means rapid expanding gas and that causes some explosion but i don't think that's enough to beat the inertia of a mech (or only upper body even) to knock it back (or force upper body to twist). I think it's more suitable that weapons which actually throw some mass (kinetic weapons) to cause knockback/force twist effect.

[~SJ~ Blhurr]

I'd rage quit in a hurry if this game turned into 90% correcting aim from weapons with knockback effects. My vision is already going bad trying to focus at the resolutions I'm playing at. I can't believe how many people are advocating for this. Do the hardest hitting weapons in the game really need a debilitating effect to accompany them?  Doesn't sound like fun to me. Anyone getting focus fired can start planning for their next mech

[KingLeerUK]

As Ingrater has said, it's more about animation resources than anything else; knock-around is an animation that we would need, and they would have to be customised to each 'Mech which would be a LOT of work.   But there is an element of balance and gameplay experience, and having excessive knock-around for any weapon can be to the detriment of both of those.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

idea: instead of animations, script quick (0.2 sec), small torso rotation.
Effect similar, maybe not as good visual wise as you get rotated only side-wise, not up/down as on the Kyatlu shown in the gifs, but improves the experience.

In theory you could script also up and down rotation... but that's another matter. Point is that this possibly could be done C++ wise instead of creating regular animations. There are flowgraphs that can do this already... if someone would like I can make sample, working graph with knock-back effect. What would need to be done is linking similar directive with the weapons hit. At least - that's the theory.

Possible problems are:
- It'd be hard to implement this though with stuff with multi-hit weapons, like MRMs or LBXes. As in LBX each pellet hitting would mean some degree of rotation - for LBX20 it could be about 0.2 degree per pellet... question is if the rotation control script can support such small deviations.
- Another problem is that in theory: 2 AC2 == 1 AC5; 2 AC5 == 1 AC10, 2 AC10 == 1 AC20. So what if you get hit by 4 AC5 bullets simultaneously? In theory it should mean you get rotated by deviation equaling one of AC20 hit. Though noone seriously thinking would want each AC5 bullet to affect Mech as it'd be seriously annoying.
- Annoyance factor. Some test-sample video would need to be made and show to people, combined with a poll? Cause as we see - not everyone would be happy of struggling with controls.