Battletech concepts that don't work in MWLL

[=KoS=Zeus]

Clan honor was a piss poor attempt by the designers to validate their decision to make Clan equipment ridiculously overpowered and to cover their own @$$es after they realized they broke the damned game. Clan tech makes me throw up a little every time I look at it and anyone who enjoys clan mechs for reasons other than their visual appeal has a questionable definition of what is fun, if you ask me.

What I find hilarious is that the designers had actually created a lore based foil for the obviously OP clan tech designs, but then had to turn around and invent a loophole to allow clan players to go back to being OP. Just goes to show you that players with the loudest voices have no idea what is good for a game's health as a whole since nothing else matters to them than having the biggest, most powerful X, Y, Z in the game.

I give props to the devs for converting clan and inner sphere weapons to a real time simulation and boiling out most of the inherently OP bull$hi+ of clan tech while still maintaining the flavor of them having advanced technology.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

Clan honor was a piss poor attempt by the designers to validate their decision to make Clan equipment ridiculously overpowered and to cover their own @$$es after they realized they broke the damned game. Clan tech makes me throw up a little every time I look at it and anyone who enjoys clan mechs for reasons other than their visual appeal has a questionable definition of what is fun, if you ask me.

What I find hilarious is that the designers had actually created a lore based foil for the obviously OP clan tech designs, but then had to turn around and invent a loophole to allow clan players to go back to being OP. Just goes to show you that players with the loudest voices have no idea what is good for a game's health as a whole since nothing else matters to them than having the biggest, most powerful X, Y, Z in the game.

I give props to the devs for converting clan and inner sphere weapons to a real time simulation and boiling out most of the inherently OP bull$hi+ of clan tech while still maintaining the flavor of them having advanced technology.

Are you honestly so upset over staying true to source material? Or is this a response to a post in this thread I somehow overlooked.

[Brainwright]

Are you honestly so upset over staying true to source material? Or is this a response to a post in this thread I somehow overlooked.

Take a look back at the first post.  Yeah, there was a point there which accompanied his response perfectly.

I still think they haven't got the pricing right, not with most IS assets being restricted from key technologies, like double heat sinks.

[Flyingdebris]

I'm more interested in reinterpreting systems that don't translate well than to exclude them all together, cause taking things verbatim is the sort of stuff that leads to the old MW games having machineguns eat through assault mechs.

[zombat]

From my brief look at CBT he does appear to have a point, CBT is a great big pile of unbalanced arse.

Clantech is lighter, smaller, more powerful, and longer ranged
From a purely gameplay perspective what advantages does IS have?

[~SJ~ Wolf]

From my brief look at CBT he does appear to have a point, CBT is a great big pile of unbalanced arse.

Clantech is lighter, smaller, more powerful, and longer ranged
From a purely gameplay perspective what advantages does IS have?

IS has the edge on the electronics's end (I love how this is conveniently ignored by so many). The fact that Clan equipment is a bit better on the offense side doesn't make the chances of the clan team winning much better. When/If the electronics's the clans shouldn't have in MWLL are removed, the IS will have better defense, and a nice offense boost. If the electronics's turn out to be worthless, then they need to be buffed accordingly. The posts about homogenizing the tech for both sides tho, really need to stop. It's a fact of the franchise.

[(TLL) Zeh]

Clan honor was a piss poor attempt by the designers to validate their decision to make Clan equipment ridiculously overpowered and to cover their own @$$es after they realized they broke the damned game. Clan tech makes me throw up a little every time I look at it and anyone who enjoys clan mechs for reasons other than their visual appeal has a questionable definition of what is fun, if you ask me.

What I find hilarious is that the designers had actually created a lore based foil for the obviously OP clan tech designs, but then had to turn around and invent a loophole to allow clan players to go back to being OP. Just goes to show you that players with the loudest voices have no idea what is good for a game's health as a whole since nothing else matters to them than having the biggest, most powerful X, Y, Z in the game.

I give props to the devs for converting clan and inner sphere weapons to a real time simulation and boiling out most of the inherently OP bull$hi+ of clan tech while still maintaining the flavor of them having advanced technology.

Are you honestly so upset over staying true to source material? Or is this a response to a post in this thread I somehow overlooked.

I think he's actually complaining about the source material being poorly designed.  I agree.  Great for a story, stupid for game balance. 

[Virt]

IS tech was also less expensive (ie easier to source/repair/build) wasn't it...?

[~SJ~ Wolf]

Clan honor was a piss poor attempt by the designers to validate their decision to make Clan equipment ridiculously overpowered and to cover their own @$$es after they realized they broke the damned game. Clan tech makes me throw up a little every time I look at it and anyone who enjoys clan mechs for reasons other than their visual appeal has a questionable definition of what is fun, if you ask me.

What I find hilarious is that the designers had actually created a lore based foil for the obviously OP clan tech designs, but then had to turn around and invent a loophole to allow clan players to go back to being OP. Just goes to show you that players with the loudest voices have no idea what is good for a game's health as a whole since nothing else matters to them than having the biggest, most powerful X, Y, Z in the game.

I give props to the devs for converting clan and inner sphere weapons to a real time simulation and boiling out most of the inherently OP bull$hi+ of clan tech while still maintaining the flavor of them having advanced technology.

Are you honestly so upset over staying true to source material? Or is this a response to a post in this thread I somehow overlooked.

I think he's actually complaining about the source material being poorly designed.  I agree.  Great for a story, stupid for game balance.

While superficially you are right, the game isn't being translated point for point. Many things are different, the point is that you can have different faction tech and close balance can be made (overall team skill being the difference maker). Normalizing all the values, or homogenizing all  the tech is not the right thing to do. 

[Brainwright]

IS tech was also less expensive (ie easier to source/repair/build) wasn't it...?

Building may have been easier for the IS, but the Clans, with their Omni systems, had a much easier time of repairing and fielding assets.

Also, the Inner Sphere doesn't have all that much greater an advantage in electronics.  C3 is just a way for the Spheroids to catch up with the the Clan targeting computer, and it can be blocked by ECM.

Also, it's not so much that CBT is unbalanced, it's that Clan vs. IS is meant to be an elite force against the masses.  IS could even place "salvaged," Clan tech on its favored mechs.  We can't work that here in MWLL.  We just don't simulate the strategic portion that makes fielding high-quality units a pain in the ass.  Otherwise, the Nova Cat would cost twice as much as an Atlas.  You'd like that?

[xInVicTuSx]

May I just say that, this discussion is becoming moot in my opinion.
Mostly because the pool of data to draw from when it comes to pure tech matches is minuscule, I mean, how many large scale pure tech pub matches have you guys played?
I for one have played none, I just cant find the servers. How are we supposed to know even where to begin in any concrete manner if we don't start testing the mode now in the beta? I don't advocate entire servers going entirely over to pure tech as there have already been stated reasons why its early to start pure tech matches proper, (not enough assets in certain tiers), however it would be nice for the populated servers (you know who you are  ) to at least run a "happy hour" once in awhile with one round of puretech SA just to get some data or perhaps a day set aside for puretech.
As it is there are tons of arguments through hypotheticals and cannon arguments and such, but it would be nice, at least for me personally, to have some experience with the mode to better understand the direction it should take.

[(TLL) Zeh]

I am actually looking forward to "puretech" modes, I think it will probably even be a game-defining feature once it's fleshed out properly.  Having the two sides actually be different (Other than their flag and headshot instruments) is an exciting and fairly unique for a head-to-head game like this.

I just haven't seen the key yet, the balancing tool that will bring everything in-line.  The bottom line is this:  Clan mechs CANNOT be hands-down better than their IS counterparts or the game mode won't work.  They can have better weapons.  They can have better engines (I think that's stupid, it's barely noticeable and will only feed to exacerbate the problem).  They can have better heatsinks.  They can't have all of these.  They can't have better armor and ANY of these.  AND the IS better have some fairly significant advantages to make up for it. 

In the end, it's going to be a tricky balancing act, the clan-fans will say you neutered the entire purpose and existence of clan tech by making 5v5 a fair match, but it's fair or it's not a good game.  Sometimes people will point to IS artillery/aero as a balancing factor.  Sure, it may be, but that will not make a good game.  If clan mechs are noticeably superior the balance will not work.  I'm looking forward to seeing what the devs can come up with, I'm sure I'll love it.

[Flyingdebris]

I've mentioned this a handful of times before, but one thing i would love to see, is to have all the extra redundant weight in IS equipment serve a purpose.

Kinda taking the fact that IS tech has primarily been the same rugged equipment for nearly 300 years.  300 years of "Ford Tough" as it were.  Meanwhile the clans have been making headway in high performance parts and light weight materials and all that.  but as anyone knows, high performance is not exactly high endurance.

So if we ever have cbt style crit damage or component failure, i think part of the IS's advantage, is that some of their gear can take more of a beating before they go offline.  The overall result being that critically injured IS mechs would likely have a higher percentage of weapons and gear remaining than a similarly damaged clan mech.

The idea i'm trying to convey is akin to Ford vs Ferrari, AK family of rifles vs AR-15 family of rifles, Clydesdale horse vs Arabian horse.

This would only apply to component health though, armor hitpoints would likely still be in the clanner's favor, IS stuff would just keep it together better at low health than clan stuff.

so lets say an IS standard PPC has 100 hp, the clan ER PPC has 70.  IS med laser has 40 hp, clan er med has 30. etc etc

[=KoS=Zeus]

It's funny, when I first played Battletech I thought you had to destroy all the crit locations of a weapon to disable it. Later on I shared a similar sentiment in that there is simply more mass and displacement to an IS weapon so it has to be tougher and a lot more forgiving than clan tech.

[Virt]

Pure tech games will be interesting, but I have a feeling everyone who doesn't have the discipline to autojoin would end up on the Clan side.   

In fact, already, 80% of the time I autojoin I end up on the IS.  So the pro-Clan bias already seems to be happening (I think?)