Battletech concepts that don't work in MWLL

[Brainwright]

Pure tech games will be interesting, but I have a feeling everyone who doesn't have the discipline to autojoin would end up on the Clan side.   

In fact, already, 80% of the time I autojoin I end up on the IS.  So the pro-Clan bias already seems to be happening (I think?)

The real tell is the number of clan assets on the field.

Currently, the only place we have a good selection is the mechs.  What do you see?

[~SJ~ Wolf]

It's funny, when I first played Battletech I thought you had to destroy all the crit locations of a weapon to disable it. Later on I shared a similar sentiment in that there is simply more mass and displacement to an IS weapon so it has to be tougher and a lot more forgiving than clan tech.

I look at clan tech like I do USAF planes. Beautiful to look at, and just as deadly but durability goes to the Russians. The IS, should be the Russians. It ain't pretty but it works and lasts.

[(TLL)Siilk]

So if we ever have cbt style crit damage or component failure, i think part of the IS's advantage, is that some of their gear can take more of a beating before they go offline.  The overall result being that critically injured IS mechs would likely have a higher percentage of weapons and gear remaining than a similarly damaged clan mech.

The idea i'm trying to convey is akin to Ford vs Ferrari, AK family of rifles vs AR-15 family of rifles, Clydesdale horse vs Arabian horse.

^This

It's funny, when I first played Battletech I thought you had to destroy all the crit locations of a weapon to disable it. Later on I shared a similar sentiment in that there is simply more mass and displacement to an IS weapon so it has to be tougher and a lot more forgiving than clan tech.

I look at clan tech like I do USAF planes. Beautiful to look at, and just as deadly but durability goes to the Russians. The IS, should be the Russians. It ain't pretty but it works and lasts.

^and this.

Exactly how I feel about Clan/IS balance. More advanced, sophisticated and capable Clan tech versus cheaper, sturdier and easy to maintain IS tech.

[HAARP]

That's mainly due to 3025 IS mechs using fusion engines. But looking at the tonnages, all IS machines have been upgraded to XL engines in MWLL. Fusion engines (therefore increased durability) would mean less firepower/armor for IS machines. Clanners would rip them apart before they had a chance to make use of their increased durability. I do have some fusion-powered variants that are quite capable, but they are no match for something with an XL engine.
Not that I don't like the idea, it's very cool. But I see problems with it. On the other hand, seeing an Atlas with his side-torso and arm missing still fight one while the Timber Wolf is pretty much screwed with a missing side-torso would be cool.

[=KoS=Zeus]

Yeah, in a game where side torso destruction doesn't cripple an XL engine there is NO reason not to mount them. Whenever I reverse engineer the designs available I assume XL engines in everything.

I think it would be fantastic to have side torso destruction either function as rear torso destruction on XL equipped mechs or cause a fairly hefty constant heat build up in the mech (10-15 points a la CBT). Meanwhile, standard fusion engine mechs could lose a side torso and laugh it off.

[~SJ~ Atlessa]

That's mainly due to 3025 IS mechs using fusion engines. But looking at the tonnages, all IS machines have been upgraded to XL engines in MWLL. Fusion engines (therefore increased durability) would mean less firepower/armor for IS machines. Clanners would rip them apart before they had a chance to make use of their increased durability. I do have some fusion-powered variants that are quite capable, but they are no match for something with an XL engine.
Not that I don't like the idea, it's very cool. But I see problems with it. On the other hand, seeing an Atlas with his side-torso and arm missing still fight one while the Timber Wolf is pretty much screwed with a missing side-torso would be cool.

Ehh... I thought ALL 'Mechs are powered by fusion-engines??? o.O
What are XLs then?  Diesel? Fission?

[HAARP]

Ehh... I thought ALL 'Mechs are powered by fusion-engines??? o.O
What are XLs then?  Diesel? Fission?

By "fusion" I'm referring to traditional fusion engines
XL engines are "extra-light" fusion engines that weigh half as much, but take up crit space in the side torsos (normal fusion only takes up the center torso). For this reason, mechs with XL engines can carry a lot more weaponry or armor, but are susceptible to engine loss if the side-torsos are damaged or destroyed

[(TLL) Zeh]

That's mainly due to 3025 IS mechs using fusion engines. But looking at the tonnages, all IS machines have been upgraded to XL engines in MWLL. Fusion engines (therefore increased durability) would mean less firepower/armor for IS machines. Clanners would rip them apart before they had a chance to make use of their increased durability. I do have some fusion-powered variants that are quite capable, but they are no match for something with an XL engine.

You're missing the point a bit.  We are going to need to bend/break the rules, to make IS more sturdy without any disadvantages to go along with them.  They need to = clan mechs (overall), the mechs will be different, but clan won't be better (I know it's like blasphemy to say that to some around here)

[CharlesBronson]

Pure tech games will be interesting, but I have a feeling everyone who doesn't have the discipline to autojoin would end up on the Clan side.   

In fact, already, 80% of the time I autojoin I end up on the IS.  So the pro-Clan bias already seems to be happening (I think?)

I was just talking about that last night on one of the servers.  I am a defacto IS player because I autojoin.  A lot of people enjoy the mystique of the clan and I understand that, but something needs to be done to get people to spread out, considering that the advantage between the two sides doesn't even exist yet and it is already a small but annoying problem.

[DeathYacht]

Here is a BT concept that would have a hard time working in MWLL: to think that real game-playing humans ("the playerbase") will mirror (as a group) the tactics, morals and battle logic of fictitious Clan or Inner Sphere entities and as such then request that development model the weapons and gameplay to mirror those elements of fiction.

Actually, there is a way to influence behavior in your player base, capitalism!  Just reduce the cash amounts a player receives for "dishonorable" activity and increase the cash rewards for the behavior you want the other team to exhibit.  So you might halve the amount of cash reward the clans give their warriors for damaging legs, for example, but give double for killing a BA (bloodthirsty, fight to the death) and give the lcan warriors cash for destruction of the environment/property (invaders!).  While the IS warriors might get half-cash for killing BA (value of life and all that), but get extra cash for things like legging, etc that don't really kill the mechwarrior, and they might be penalized for property destruction.

[dCK-Ad_Hominem]

Here is a BT concept that would have a hard time working in MWLL: to think that real game-playing humans ("the playerbase") will mirror (as a group) the tactics, morals and battle logic of fictitious Clan or Inner Sphere entities and as such then request that development model the weapons and gameplay to mirror those elements of fiction.

Actually, there is a way to influence behavior in your player base, capitalism!  Just reduce the cash amounts a player receives for "dishonorable" activity and increase the cash rewards for the behavior you want the other team to exhibit.  So you might halve the amount of cash reward the clans give their warriors for damaging legs, for example, but give double for killing a BA (bloodthirsty, fight to the death) and give the lcan warriors cash for destruction of the environment/property (invaders!).  While the IS warriors might get half-cash for killing BA (value of life and all that), but get extra cash for things like legging, etc that don't really kill the mechwarrior, and they might be penalized for property destruction.

Then again you run into the problem that the honourable warrior who is really into it gets penatalized for the behaviour of a noob on the same team. Your general idea is great, but I really do not see a way it can be applied to the game.

[xInVicTuSx]

Balance is definitely going in the right direction in my experience.
The thing that is hurting the IS is two fold:
Some of their equipment is pointlessly nerfed and thus they are shooting themselves in the foot, got nothing to do with the clans.

The bigger operational problem, the stuff that gets me killed and loses rounds, is the same thing i am ALWAYS harping on, that is, lulvariants.

Horrible variants completely cripple the IS late game, the Atlas has horrid variants, the Mauler doesn't have any good medium killer variant, its ok vs heavies and lights but mediums and assaults it has trouble with, the only thing left most of the time is the Awesome, which does not have the armor or podspace to fill the role it is asked to fill. The Atlas C is only good in certain situations, but its being forced to pick up the slack of the other variants and its weaknesses are showing.
Now, the clans have lulvariants too (I'm looking at you Gauss Loki, even Uller Prime tbh) but they're less noticable because clan tech is just better and can make up for it easier.

The only MECH itself that is in bad shape is the Hollander, its really hard to find a place for it in my line up. Everything else can be brutally effective if equiped correctly. See Thanatos C compared to Thanatos Prime as an example, its uphill to do any real damage with the prime, but the C can solo a novacat if you're sneaky. 

The other day I was doing really well early round on sandblasted and decided to rush an Atlas prime, I ended up killing one medium and dieing by a small gang even though I had support, I felt completely useless. Next spawn I came back as a Warhammer prime and mopped the floor with the same players in the same mechs with less support, the Warhammer is doing its job, the Atlas is not.

By the way, I have thought about the Hollander and I feel that all its variants have a decent role except the Prime, the price needs to be brought down to CDT level to make it worth taking in my opinion. 

[=KoS= Eldragon]

By the way, I have thought about the Hollander and I feel that all its variants have a decent role except the Prime, the price needs to be brought down to CDT level to make it worth taking in my opinion.

I mostly agree that it is hard to convince anyone to take the Hollander Prime over the Uller A. However the Hollander Prime's jumping, high mounted gauss rifle, and large ammo capacity makes it perform very well in SA_Urban_Jungle. Price reduction would work, or replace the 4xSPL with 4xMBL to augment its sniping ability.

[KingLeerUK]

By the way, I have thought about the Hollander and I feel that all its variants have a decent role except the Prime, the price needs to be brought down to CDT level to make it worth taking in my opinion.

I mostly agree that it is hard to convince anyone to take the Hollander Prime over the Uller A. However the Hollander Prime's jumping, high mounted gauss rifle, and large ammo capacity makes it perform very well in SA_Urban_Jungle. Price reduction would work, or replace the 4xSPL with 4xMBL to augment its sniping ability.

The arm mount points of the Hollander will not support 4x Medium sized weapons with the MWLL pod concept.  Instead, the arms would only be able to support 1x MBL each in a single-slot pod.

[zombat]

Here's an idea to do with the whole clan honour malarky.

Claners see legging and backshots to be dishonourable right?
So logically they'd be less inclined to armor the legs and back torso.


Basically clanners can have their OP weapons if IS gets to chop off their legs, it would fit the fluff afterall