Suggestion for LB-X Autocannons

[~SJ~ Wolf]

I seem to recall that one of the primary uses of a shotgun is to kill birds...

My honors history teacher used his for gophers, but i see what you did there.

[xInVicTuSx]

Hell I use a .22 with a dot scope to pick off birds jumping from tree to tree at 50 yards, shotgun would make it boring.
I can confirm that it takes at least 3 Gauss shots to down even a sulla.
Been reading this thread and its a tough call, but my main concern is any changes or nerfs effecting the LBX5, unlike the AC group which have completely different behavior from class to class the LBX is just a simple bigger and slower formula.
Changing just the LBX20 doesn't seem to make much sense so long as it is the damage of an LBX5 multiplied by 4 times, seems like to keep consistency you would have to lower the modifier on the LBX as a whole, but doing that would threaten an already rare weapon in the LBX5, which, along with the LBX2, is particularly noted for its anti air reputation.

As to the suggestion of making them behave like ACs, in my experience the weapons are behaving opposite their descriptions that I have heard in CBT. For instance, the AC20 even shot close range into the CT of a mech will splash damage all areas around it, but the LBX20 shot close range will concentrate all its firepower into the one area. The trade off I guess for this is that you get a bigger punch in a more concentrated zone. Now, if you change that you will definitely have to change the damage by alot if you up the rate of fire, because if you don't you could fire off all 12 rounds of your LBX much faster and tear anything to pieces in seconds. But if you do bring down the damage it will simply act like a half ass AC with less splash damage and less ammo per ton.

I for one do like the POP goes the weasel behavior of the LBX, its different from the constant fire of an AC.
You could lower the damage modifier on Aeros enough to give them a chance but I would in turn raise the firerate of the LBX5 so it could keep almost constant flak on a passing plane where as the large LBX would be reserved for a one shot high damage punch, but without instagibbing. Perhaps even introduce the LBX2 and have a constant little flak cloud fire out.

Tough call though however you slice it.

[Virt]

I seem to recall that one of the primary uses of a shotgun is to kill birds...

Heh, fair comment.     However, not many birds could take 2 bullet hits to the wing, either

[Digital Communist]

I like the LBX 10 and 20 as they are. But the LBX 2 and 5 are completely useless. Don't come talking about the LBX 5 partisan, its a terrible vehicle for everything. Better AA platforms are out there, better anti BA and Light mech platforms are out there.

Take for instance the LBX 2 sparrowhawk. How the hell are you supposed to use the LBX 2 in a dogfight when it fires so slowly?

If the LBX 2 and 5 fired as fast as their AC or UAC counterparts with highly nerfed damage, you might see people using them more. As it stands, they're a joke.

[(TLL) Heretic]

I like the LBX 10 and 20 as they are. But the LBX 2 and 5 are completely useless. Don't come talking about the LBX 5 partisan, its a terrible vehicle for everything. Better AA platforms are out there, better anti BA and Light mech platforms are out there.

Whaaaa?  The LB-X Partisan is one of the best IS AA Platforms out there.  Especially now the primes had it's firepower reduced (we need the old prime back IMO).  2 Alpha's will down a Shiva, and the refire rates fast enough that you can do those 2 shots before he drops his bombs, if your lucky/good.

In the RoF argument (ie. turning their fire rates intpo their AC counterparts) I was almost going to say we leave the LB-5X alone, sacrosanct, because it's so nicely balanced right now, but figured if its RoF was like the AC5 it's still do the same job in the same time, we'd just have to hit with more shot.

Take for instance the LBX 2 sparrowhawk. How the hell are you supposed to use the LBX 2 in a dogfight when it fires so slowly?

If the LBX 2 and 5 fired as fast as their AC or UAC counterparts with highly nerfed damage, you might see people using them more. As it stands, they're a joke.

Obviously I don't agree with the LB-5X being a joke vs ASF (it's not worth using on Heavy 'mechs, unlike the UAC5s on a huit, I would agree) but I do agree if they were a steady piss stream of pellets they'd probably be used more.

[Digital Communist]

I like the LBX 10 and 20 as they are. But the LBX 2 and 5 are completely useless. Don't come talking about the LBX 5 partisan, its a terrible vehicle for everything. Better AA platforms are out there, better anti BA and Light mech platforms are out there.

Whaaaa?  The LB-X Partisan is one of the best IS AA Platforms out there.  Especially now the primes had it's firepower reduced (we need the old prime back IMO).  2 Alpha's will down a Shiva, and the refire rates fast enough that you can do those 2 shots before he drops his bombs, if your lucky/good.

In the RoF argument (ie. turning their fire rates intpo their AC counterparts) I was almost going to say we leave the LB-5X alone, sacrosanct, because it's so nicely balanced right now, but figured if its RoF was like the AC5 it's still do the same job in the same time, we'd just have to hit with more shot.

Take for instance the LBX 2 sparrowhawk. How the hell are you supposed to use the LBX 2 in a dogfight when it fires so slowly?

If the LBX 2 and 5 fired as fast as their AC or UAC counterparts with highly nerfed damage, you might see people using them more. As it stands, they're a joke.

Obviously I don't agree with the LB-5X being a joke vs ASF (it's not worth using on Heavy 'mechs, unlike the UAC5s on a huit, I would agree) but I do agree if they were a steady piss stream of pellets they'd probably be used more.

Eh, you are right that it can two shot an aero, but its an all or nothing hit and you're sitting waiting for a reload if you miss, whereas a steady piss stream (LOL) is more forgiving if you miss

[(TLL) Heretic]

true.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

I don't understand how you can apply "DPS" to this like it somehow applies. This game is about maximizing time on a target area and burst damage. Fights are so shot that talking about weapons like this is an MMO just seems weird to me.

Making all the ACs the same, is also silly when they are not the same. They take up different amounts of critical points, so are obviously not the same gun, with different ammo. Its an entirely different cannon. The auto (in my opinion)meaning, you don't manually reload  which has nothing to do with RoF.

ACs are slow , UACs fire faster, LBX is a shotgun. Variety is a good thing, and should remain in tact.

[Sesambrot]

I think it actually makes sense talking about DPS, especially regarding the different kinds of ACs...
The RACs for example do only minimal damage with a single shot, but have a high fire rate and in fact a high DPS, while LBX20 has a very high damage per shot but an extremely long reaload time, which makes it's DPS rather low.
Standard ACs/UACs are something between those two.
Due to these differences each weapon has it's specific role, while RACs are good for long firefights, LBXs are most suitable for hit'n'run tactics.
Considering that, if LBX where brought closer to ACs (in the way they work) one of both weapons would become more or less useless.

Regarding the LBX20s ability to oneshot ASF, I don't really see whats wrong with that.
I'm pretty sure a shiva takes more then one hit.
However, even if it doesn't, it's still pretty hard to hit an ASF with an LBX, and besides the LBX20s range is only about 350m, effective vs ASF at about 200m I'd say.
And in my eyes getting that close to an LBX20 equipped mech/vehicle while in an ASF is stupid, especially because you simply don't need to get that close.

I've already been that stupid several times, and it feels just right that such stupidity gets punished...

Just my two cents.

[whatever]

keep it the same except a more even spread of damage all over the target facing the lbx blast, also the lbx-5 and lbx-2 need more of a rapid fire with a more logorithmic rate of heat generated,mass fire power but in turn it slows down as it heats up, placing it in the middle of ac-cannon and ultra-auto cannon fire rates

so basic  ac cannon has a even rate of fire with less heat generated, the ultra cannon has double the rate of fire with the increase in heat generated and finnally the lbx cannon is fast firing like the ultra ac then the fire rates slows down like a normal ac cannon in addition having a logorithmic increase in heat generated for each shot fired (greater heat than the ultra cannon)

anyhoo just an idea, i think the damage lbx-10 and lbx-20 does is perfect just needs a minor adjustment in heat tied to rate of fire.

[HAARP]

I think it actually makes sense talking about DPS, especially regarding the different kinds of ACs...
The RACs for example do only minimal damage with a single shot, but have a high fire rate and in fact a high DPS, while LBX20 has a very high damage per shot but an extremely long reaload time, which makes it's DPS rather low.
Standard ACs/UACs are something between those two.
Due to these differences each weapon has it's specific role, while RACs are good for long firefights, LBXs are most suitable for hit'n'run tactics.
Considering that, if LBX where brought closer to ACs (in the way they work) one of both weapons would become more or less useless.

Regarding the LBX20s ability to oneshot ASF, I don't really see whats wrong with that.
I'm pretty sure a shiva takes more then one hit.
However, even if it doesn't, it's still pretty hard to hit an ASF with an LBX, and besides the LBX20s range is only about 350m, effective vs ASF at about 200m I'd say.
And in my eyes getting that close to an LBX20 equipped mech/vehicle while in an ASF is stupid, especially because you simply don't need to get that close.

I've already been that stupid several times, and it feels just right that such stupidity gets punished...

Just my two cents.

It's 450m afair, and they're effective to almost maximum range. It's easy to hit with them, I do it all the time.
And yes, many Aero variants force you to get close to your targets. UAC, Hgauss, Firebombs, even LBLs and Tbolts force you to get close sometimes. Calling this stupidity is stupid itself, except if you enjoy having the sky full of of boaty ELRM Shivas. :/

[Sesambrot]

It's 450m afair, and they're effective to almost maximum range. It's easy to hit with them, I do it all the time.
And yes, many Aero variants force you to get close to your targets. UAC, Hgauss, Firebombs, even LBLs and Tbolts force you to get close sometimes. Calling this stupidity is stupid itself, except if you enjoy having the sky full of of boaty ELRM Shivas. :/

I haven't seen the UAC and FBomb variants in ages...
And maybe it's just me, but as an ASF Pilot, I normaly feel rather stupid when I gave someone the chance to shoot me down with an LBX20...
There are so many ways to avoid that, so far I've been able to avoid or evade LBX20 most of the time, and the few times I was shot down by an LBX was when the enemy was only about 200m away from me and i didn't notice him sneaking up on me. (I was in a Hawkmoth)

It's simply that I don't understand why ppl are complaining again, it simply isn't as bad as you say...

[HAARP]

It isn't as bad when you know what you're doing. I haven't been shot down by LBX in ages.
But that doesn't change the fact that I shoot other Aeros down, even if they're at max range of my cannons. It just can't be right that this is possible. I'm not crying that I get shot down all the time, I just notice a mechanic that does seem completely out of place.

[KSerge83]

With all the talk of the LB-X being the "shotgun" of the BT/MW universe, I'll propose this analogy.

The change that is being suggested here is to change the currently double-barrel LBX-20 shotgun of insta-gibness to a pump-action large bore LBX-20 shotgun. Faster fire, less damage per shot. It's still a shotgun, you just can't one shot things.

I'm not sure why that part of the suggestion is so hard to grasp. We're not talking about slowing down the projectile speed on LBX's, as that's one of their uniquely awesome features. What we're talking about is a reduction in the damage of each shell of buckshot, so that instead of one LBX-20 killing the "birds" you might have to use two, or three if your aim sucks. This would seem like a huge nerf, but to balance it, the refire rate of the LBX would increase, so that instead of your old single click doing 50 damage with a 4 second reload, you now do 25 damage with a 2 second reload.

To me that seems like a fair compromise. The beatstick would still be a very very dangerous unit, both for ground and air forces.

[Sesambrot]

What I don't like about this idea, is that we already have a weapon like that...
The AC/UAC, I know that one has far less dmg and a way higher reload speed, but actually RACs are supposed to be the high firerate but low dmg per shot ACs, while LBX are the "one shot big hurt" weapons.
ACs and UACs are something in between.
Nerfing LBXs to become more like ACs isn't going to solve anything, the only effect would be that one of the two weapons becomes useless.
lowering it's damage vs light armor is a better solution, just as much so a shiva can survive one direct hit...
I don't mind if an LBX20 instagibs any other air asset since it is by now the most threatening close range weapon.