Author Topic: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?  (Read 5883 times)

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Offline ~SJ~ Karuik

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2010, 10:21:03 PM »
MWLL forums latest annoyance everyone! :D


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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2010, 10:23:32 PM »
lol
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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2010, 11:50:53 PM »
ROFL!

BTW what you mean by latest annoyance Karuik! hmmm ;)


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Offline MrAgmoore

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2010, 01:03:21 AM »
I ( most likely ) played in the game that ComeAndSee is complaining about. This is what I saw:

ComeAndSee said something like "Plane that's following me, you are wasting your time - I am just ignoring you". He said it a few times.

This isn't particularly unusual because it's something that he often says ( and just suggests psychological tactics ie. he doesn't like being followed because it throws him off his game for some reason ).

ComeAndSee starts crying and whining that he is getting rammed ( which makes me burst into laughter because he is imho the best pilot in the game and his kill / death ratio ended up at 4 / 7 and this is on mirage map where he does low level flying and has the whole map in his brain ie. his best map.

I sarcastically pointed out his K / D ratio, which was getting worse and worse. He complained that the sound of an enemy airplane following him bothers him to the point where he has to turn the sound down really low ( some other pilot agreed that it is a problem ). He said that he wished this changed and I told him to post the idea on the forum.

He was whining the entire game and a few people ( not me ) pointed out that he was being very immature.

Every time he whined, I told the pilots to keep following him, which led to more crying and whining, which led to me shitting my pants with laughter.

I'm guessing that ComeAndSee's own taunts led to his own demise. They probably followed him so closely that they accidently crashed into him ( either that or they rammed him to death ).

Airplane ramming is the best AA.

/ thread
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Offline Sesambrot

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2010, 01:33:46 AM »
I ( most likely ) played in the game that ComeAndSee is complaining about. This is what I saw:

ComeAndSee said something like "Plane that's following me, you are wasting your time - I am just ignoring you". He said it a few times.

This isn't particularly unusual because it's something that he often says ( and just suggests psychological tactics ie. he doesn't like being followed because it throws him off his game for some reason ).

ComeAndSee starts crying and whining that he is getting rammed ( which makes me burst into laughter because he is imho the best pilot in the game and his kill / death ratio ended up at 4 / 7 and this is on mirage map where he does low level flying and has the whole map in his brain ie. his best map.

I sarcastically pointed out his K / D ratio, which was getting worse and worse. He complained that the sound of an enemy airplane following him bothers him to the point where he has to turn the sound down really low ( some other pilot agreed that it is a problem ). He said that he wished this changed and I told him to post the idea on the forum.

He was whining the entire game and a few people ( not me ) pointed out that he was being very immature.

Every time he whined, I told the pilots to keep following him, which led to more crying and whining, which led to me shitting my pants with laughter.

I'm guessing that ComeAndSee's own taunts led to his own demise. They probably followed him so closely that they accidently crashed into him ( either that or they rammed him to death ).

Airplane ramming is the best AA.

/ thread
I think you miss the point here, what he complains about is something different.
The source of his frustration may be that particular game, but the problem itself is a bug.
It allows you to crash a sparrowhawk into any other ASF, which will most likely destroy the enemy aircraft and kill it's pilot, while 90% of the time the sparrowhawk pilot survives.

There are several reasons why people decide to use it, besides of being an assh***
1. Dogfight mechanics are simply broken, it's almost impossible to shoot down enemy ASF by using ASF
2. You are rewarded for this, it means one less enemy ASF, and the penalty for destroying your own ASF is way less than the reward for killing the enemy


I guess as soon as dogfighting becomes rewarding it won't be that much of a problem anymore, though the sparrowhawks pilot shouldn't be able to survive nontheless...
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Offline Colonel Drego

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2010, 01:55:40 AM »
Someone remove this idiot.

Offline ~SJ~ Griffin

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #51 on: September 03, 2010, 02:30:30 AM »
before the troll(s) completely hijack this thread, i would like to point out that often the rammer does not get rewarded with the kill; at least in my experience. Often times a sparrowhawk will ram into the back of my shiva, killing us both, but i get the kill.

You may continue with the hijacking now.

Offline MrAgmoore

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #52 on: September 03, 2010, 02:43:11 AM »
I ( most likely ) played in the game that ComeAndSee is complaining about. This is what I saw:

ComeAndSee said something like "Plane that's following me, you are wasting your time - I am just ignoring you". He said it a few times.

This isn't particularly unusual because it's something that he often says ( and just suggests psychological tactics ie. he doesn't like being followed because it throws him off his game for some reason ).

ComeAndSee starts crying and whining that he is getting rammed ( which makes me burst into laughter because he is imho the best pilot in the game and his kill / death ratio ended up at 4 / 7 and this is on mirage map where he does low level flying and has the whole map in his brain ie. his best map.

I sarcastically pointed out his K / D ratio, which was getting worse and worse. He complained that the sound of an enemy airplane following him bothers him to the point where he has to turn the sound down really low ( some other pilot agreed that it is a problem ). He said that he wished this changed and I told him to post the idea on the forum.

He was whining the entire game and a few people ( not me ) pointed out that he was being very immature.

Every time he whined, I told the pilots to keep following him, which led to more crying and whining, which led to me shitting my pants with laughter.

I'm guessing that ComeAndSee's own taunts led to his own demise. They probably followed him so closely that they accidently crashed into him ( either that or they rammed him to death ).

Airplane ramming is the best AA.

/ thread
I think you miss the point here, what he complains about is something different.
The source of his frustration may be that particular game, but the problem itself is a bug.
It allows you to crash a sparrowhawk into any other ASF, which will most likely destroy the enemy aircraft and kill it's pilot, while 90% of the time the sparrowhawk pilot survives.

There are several reasons why people decide to use it, besides of being an assh***
1. Dogfight mechanics are simply broken, it's almost impossible to shoot down enemy ASF by using ASF
2. You are rewarded for this, it means one less enemy ASF, and the penalty for destroying your own ASF is way less than the reward for killing the enemy


I guess as soon as dogfighting becomes rewarding it won't be that much of a problem anymore, though the sparrowhawks pilot shouldn't be able to survive nontheless...

That's a fair point. That specifically is a bug or an exploit ( like BAs shooting inside of rocks etc. )

My point is that even after all those changes, you are still going to see ramming because it has more to do with the suicide pilot's Psychology and it is so effective, it's a part of real warfare. There was an airplane pilot in MWLL who dedicated entire games to simultanteously dropping bombs and crashing his plane into weakened mech-heads while trying to jump out and survive. "My plane cost less than your mech", is what he said. He was disturbingly talented at his art and he was right. How are you going to code around that?

So what's the solution? Oh right, server rules - no air to air collisions, no air to ground, no ground to air... you can add some of your own, I'll add mine: no stepping on hovercrafts to block their movement, no stepping on tanks to block their movement ( stuff that I do ).

Then you get people complaining. Then you have to prove your honest intentions. So you end up with a facsimile of warfare.

Case in point: Crysis multiplayer, power struggle,  I'm flying a helicopter in almost pitch black, I fire a rocket at a ground base, a helicopter mysteriously explodes in front of me. I'm told if I "do that again", I'll be banned. Do what again? I'm informed about mid-air collisions ( which was a new concept for me at the time ). I mentioned that I fired rockets ( which at point blank killed both of us ) - it was pitch black and I didn't see him. Anyways, back and forth we argue. I left the server completely.

In real life there's the Geneva convention and the "articles of war" which has a list of rules of what you can and cannot do in war ( obscure things like you can't use flechettes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette

The reality is that during war all of those lovely humanitarian rules get flushed down the toilet and it's a total free-for-all ( you only have to look at current events ie. USA versus Iraq / Afghanistan: 1.5 tonnes of DU dumped in Iraq ). I'd rather play something closer to reality than a hungry hungry hippos version of warfare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_hungry_hippos


And I'm not complaing about the MWLL suicide bomber at all, even though it was pure grief for our team ( over consecutive games ), I'd much rather he continue what he did and try and figure out how to stop him ( rather than putting a police hat on and blowing a whistle ).
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Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #53 on: September 03, 2010, 02:46:50 AM »
+1 for the Hungry Hungry Hippos citation.

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Offline =KoS= Saber15

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #54 on: September 03, 2010, 02:47:38 AM »
I use my Sparrowhawk as an air to air missile. Once it's actually possible to shoot down enemy planes with average sized weapons (aka not just the HGauss Shiva), I'll stop.

Airplane ramming is the best AA.

/ thread
Oh yes.

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Offline MrAgmoore

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2010, 02:51:18 AM »
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Offline Come and See

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #56 on: September 03, 2010, 02:55:50 PM »
I ( most likely ) played in the game that ComeAndSee is complaining about. This is what I saw:

ComeAndSee said something like "Plane that's following me, you are wasting your time - I am just ignoring you". He said it a few times.

It's because Aerospace fighters aren't a threat right now. Dogfighting is about as helpful to your team as playing AA with a Raven. I've never been shot down by a Sparrowhawk or Sulla unless it jumps me when I'm black. I'll stay on the field until I fire the rest of my ammo (even with planes chasing me) and I'll then I'll return to base, repair, and then all the time they wasted chasing me around is irrelevant. Mirage is bugged and the turrets don't shoot at aerospace right now.

It's a problem with dogfighting.

Quote
This isn't particularly unusual because it's something that he often says ( and just suggests psychological tactics ie. he doesn't like being followed because it throws him off his game for some reason ).

It's more of a psychological tactic. Also, it's extremely annoying hearing the pig screech of a Sparrowhawk up your ass when it doesn't even do 1/30th of your health every 5s.

Quote
ComeAndSee starts crying and whining that he is getting rammed ( which makes me burst into laughter because he is imho the best pilot in the game and his kill / death ratio ended up at 4 / 7 and this is on mirage map where he does low level flying and has the whole map in his brain ie. his best map.

It was because your team deliberately rammed me non-stop. I have video footage frapsed on my home PC showing somebody chasing me, not even firing a bullet, and then ramming me in the belly when I made a turn and ejected.

Quote
I sarcastically pointed out his K / D ratio, which was getting worse and worse. He complained that the sound of an enemy airplane following him bothers him to the point where he has to turn the sound down really low ( some other pilot agreed that it is a problem ). He said that he wished this changed and I told him to post the idea on the forum.

K / D ratio is irrelevant. Score is what matters. If I crash or kill myself after getting shot out (easier than running back to base) than I lose kills. What matters is team work (i.e. narcing for my team).

Quote
He was whining the entire game and a few people ( not me ) pointed out that he was being very immature.

Quote
Every time he whined, I told the pilots to keep following him, which led to more crying and whining, which led to me shitting my pants with laughter.

I'm guessing that ComeAndSee's own taunts led to his own demise. They probably followed him so closely that they accidently crashed into him ( either that or they rammed him to death ).

Airplane ramming is the best AA.

/ thread

It's because you told your team mates to purposely keep ramming me over and over. That is very immature behavior that ruins the game for people who don't have to use cheap tactics to win. You're the one making yourself like an idiot here because you're blatantly admitting that you support ruining a small community game.

Do I have to get into a Sparrowhawk and ram into a Shiva? No, I don't even waste my time unless it's Shiva vs Shiva (and I have RAC-5's). I'll grab a T-bolt Sulla instead and actually do something useful.

It's another problem that servers aren't properly moderated with admins to weed out people who abuse game mechanics.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 03:03:11 PM by comeandsee »

Offline Sesambrot

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2010, 03:10:17 PM »
That's a fair point. That specifically is a bug or an exploit ( like BAs shooting inside of rocks etc. )

My point is that even after all those changes, you are still going to see ramming because it has more to do with the suicide pilot's Psychology and it is so effective, it's a part of real warfare. There was an airplane pilot in MWLL who dedicated entire games to simultanteously dropping bombs and crashing his plane into weakened mech-heads while trying to jump out and survive. "My plane cost less than your mech", is what he said. He was disturbingly talented at his art and he was right. How are you going to code around that?

So what's the solution? Oh right, server rules - no air to air collisions, no air to ground, no ground to air... you can add some of your own, I'll add mine: no stepping on hovercrafts to block their movement, no stepping on tanks to block their movement ( stuff that I do ).

Then you get people complaining. Then you have to prove your honest intentions. So you end up with a facsimile of warfare.

Case in point: Crysis multiplayer, power struggle,  I'm flying a helicopter in almost pitch black, I fire a rocket at a ground base, a helicopter mysteriously explodes in front of me. I'm told if I "do that again", I'll be banned. Do what again? I'm informed about mid-air collisions ( which was a new concept for me at the time ). I mentioned that I fired rockets ( which at point blank killed both of us ) - it was pitch black and I didn't see him. Anyways, back and forth we argue. I left the server completely.

In real life there's the Geneva convention and the "articles of war" which has a list of rules of what you can and cannot do in war ( obscure things like you can't use flechettes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette

The reality is that during war all of those lovely humanitarian rules get flushed down the toilet and it's a total free-for-all ( you only have to look at current events ie. USA versus Iraq / Afghanistan: 1.5 tonnes of DU dumped in Iraq ). I'd rather play something closer to reality than a hungry hungry hippos version of warfare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_hungry_hippos


And I'm not complaing about the MWLL suicide bomber at all, even though it was pure grief for our team ( over consecutive games ), I'd much rather he continue what he did and try and figure out how to stop him ( rather than putting a police hat on and blowing a whistle ).
If it wasn't as rewarding as it is right now, people would think twice about doing it...
However, I think you still miss the point, this is actually a game, not a war simulation!
As a game it aims to create fun for the people playing it, and I can tell you real war is no fun at all!
Therefore rules have to be established with in the parameter of the game in order to achieve fun.
People who are intentonally abuse (broken) gamemechanics, or exploits are killing the fun for everyone else, and still, this is not war, it's a game!
If at first you don't succeed try again, and if you don't try again, you'll be hit in the face with a shovel!
"I'm a piece of C.R.A.P."

Offline MrAgmoore

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2010, 04:14:22 PM »


Publically post video of the entire game from start to finish.
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Offline MrAgmoore

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Re: Aerospace Ramming - Exploit?
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2010, 04:19:09 PM »
That's a fair point. That specifically is a bug or an exploit ( like BAs shooting inside of rocks etc. )

My point is that even after all those changes, you are still going to see ramming because it has more to do with the suicide pilot's Psychology and it is so effective, it's a part of real warfare. There was an airplane pilot in MWLL who dedicated entire games to simultanteously dropping bombs and crashing his plane into weakened mech-heads while trying to jump out and survive. "My plane cost less than your mech", is what he said. He was disturbingly talented at his art and he was right. How are you going to code around that?

So what's the solution? Oh right, server rules - no air to air collisions, no air to ground, no ground to air... you can add some of your own, I'll add mine: no stepping on hovercrafts to block their movement, no stepping on tanks to block their movement ( stuff that I do ).

Then you get people complaining. Then you have to prove your honest intentions. So you end up with a facsimile of warfare.

Case in point: Crysis multiplayer, power struggle,  I'm flying a helicopter in almost pitch black, I fire a rocket at a ground base, a helicopter mysteriously explodes in front of me. I'm told if I "do that again", I'll be banned. Do what again? I'm informed about mid-air collisions ( which was a new concept for me at the time ). I mentioned that I fired rockets ( which at point blank killed both of us ) - it was pitch black and I didn't see him. Anyways, back and forth we argue. I left the server completely.

In real life there's the Geneva convention and the "articles of war" which has a list of rules of what you can and cannot do in war ( obscure things like you can't use flechettes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette

The reality is that during war all of those lovely humanitarian rules get flushed down the toilet and it's a total free-for-all ( you only have to look at current events ie. USA versus Iraq / Afghanistan: 1.5 tonnes of DU dumped in Iraq ). I'd rather play something closer to reality than a hungry hungry hippos version of warfare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_hungry_hippos


And I'm not complaing about the MWLL suicide bomber at all, even though it was pure grief for our team ( over consecutive games ), I'd much rather he continue what he did and try and figure out how to stop him ( rather than putting a police hat on and blowing a whistle ).
If it wasn't as rewarding as it is right now, people would think twice about doing it...
However, I think you still miss the point, this is actually a game, not a war simulation!
As a game it aims to create fun for the people playing it, and I can tell you real war is no fun at all!
Therefore rules have to be established with in the parameter of the game in order to achieve fun.
People who are intentonally abuse (broken) gamemechanics, or exploits are killing the fun for everyone else, and still, this is not war, it's a game!

I disagree:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming#Notable_examples

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargaming#Unique_Game_Systems

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleTech
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