C-Bill modifiers

[(TLL) Heretic]

'Been hearing a lot on the forums lately from people who say that C-Bills are not a good limiting factor in the game, as they are too easy to earn from the mid-game onwards, and that got me thinking.

In other 'mech games (such as MW4) you scored more points if you were against a heavier opponent (therefore a 40ton mech damaging another 40ton 'mech could earn 5,000 points, the same 40ton 'mech damaging a 100ton 'mech could earn 12,000 points.

There should also be a second modifier added to this where you gain more C-Bills for killing a higher ranked opponent than yourself, but earn next to nothing if, for example,  your a Khan killing a Cadet.

So we'd have less money per point of damage the higher you rank up (unless your always facing somebody higher ranked than you), and that's fair as you can be packing 2-3 times the firepower of the lighter machines of the lower ranks.  You'd still earn some cash and get a kill on the scoreboard, but if you wanted to keep up the fast ranking pace you'd have to hunt heavier prey.

Overall  both these modifiers should make earning money just as hard in the middle-endgame (where you get all the massive firepower machines that swim in cash after a few alphas in 0.3) as it is during the early game (where everyone struggles to rank and earn at a relatively slow pace).

Plus, those late game joining Cadets, with their light 'mechs would be a worthless annoyance rather than 25K+ of free money, to the late game GC-Khan 75ton+squads.

So with a slight global reduction to cash reward per damage point, with added modifiers for weight and rank and it could be a lot harder to stockpile massive amounts of cash from the mid-game onwards.

1 more thing, BA earnings would have to be free from the tonnage modifier, only having their cash rewards based on Rank, in fact BA should be earning far less per point of damage, as right now 3-4 BA can hand you 250k within 3 minutes under the right circumstances (a CSJ BA Squad did exactly that with me on Marshes yesterday, I went from Owens B to Mad Cat within the first 4 minutes) it's ridiculous that BA should make that much money in that timeframe, 4 'mechs would have earned <100K between them for killing the same number of light 'mechs.

Rewards for killing BA would also be free of the tonnage modifier, and increased per point of damage generally, but also based on what weapons the BA has in it's arsenal.
 

[Sesambrot]

I thought we already had modifiers like these...?
... or do they only have an effect if you actually destroy the other mech?

You're right about BAs, experienced it myself on Inferno, after killing some light mechs I had about 200k, and I played BA only... xD


After all, I believe there are already modifiers like that, but I don't know if they work for damage as well as kills/destruction...

[(TLL)Siilk]

 I'm not sure I like this modifiers, you propose. Take the rank modifier for example. Imagine a really good player joining late into the weak players' game. With "best of the weaklings" being Khans, our skilled cadet will earn tons of cbills, killing those high-ranked but still not very good players in their assault mechs. I don't think that's quite fair situation. Weight modifier is also not really good, as some light mechs are actually a hard counter for some heavies and assaults, like Puma prime vs MK II B or Owens B vs Mad dog C.

[(TLL) Heretic]

I'm not sure I like this modifiers, you propose. Take the rank modifier for example. Imagine a really good player joining late into the weak players' game. With "best of the weaklings" being Khans, our skilled cadet will earn tons of cbills, killing those high-ranked but still not very good players in their assault mechs. I don't think that's quite fair situation. Weight modifier is also not really good, as some light mechs are actually a hard counter for some heavies and assaults, like Puma prime vs MK II B or Owens B vs Mad dog C.

You can't balance for skill.

If an Light 'mech pilot was killing Assault 'mechs, then they should earn all the money and rank that's allowable, after his first Assault kill our Cadet is now probably PCM or SCM and heading back for a Heavier 'mech after trade-in, so late game balance is better than currently.

Main thing is that Heavies and Assaults have to fight Heavies and Assaults to keep earning at the same rate they were when they were fighting mediums in mediums, the noob joining late doesn't cost your team a stackload of score and give the enemy free cash in the bucketload anymore, as everytime the noob runs into the beatstick that SaKhan Assault pilot is only getting 5K for the Cadet Light 'mech..rather than around 35-30k

@Sesambrot, if these modifiers are in the game already then they need reworking and beefing up, as any average player can earn 300k+ playing safe & killing noobs in lights & mediums once they have a Clan Heavy (it's as silly as the BA cashflow IMO).  That means the entire team can be in assaults or vehicles above 120K with cash spare, and that's just boring.

Right now there is no challenge to the middle to late game, as you start earning hand-over-fist by the time you get a 80K machine (owens trade in plus 2-3kills in bank usually does that fast), this means that one side quickly folds as they cannot keep up with your earnings, and the entire thing becomes a couple of Clan Heavies beating up on little girls in Kit Foxs.

[Kyatlu]

Making earned cbills dependant upon rank and mech (including aero/vtol/armor possibly?) tonnage difference would be a better balanced system, I agree. And a late joined cadet getting lots of cbills if can manage to kill heavies/assaults is actually a good thing imho, since he/she would rank up and get a heavier mech in the end, equalizing things only faster than it's now (fast cbill earning won't go forever). That system would also promote light/medium mechs even more.

A death penalty to rank would also add to this I believe, making field cbill earning much more important than going sucidal to respawn with rank start cbills.

While on it ba killing award could increase some .

[Taemien]

I'm not sure I like this modifiers, you propose. Take the rank modifier for example. Imagine a really good player joining late into the weak players' game. With "best of the weaklings" being Khans, our skilled cadet will earn tons of cbills, killing those high-ranked but still not very good players in their assault mechs. I don't think that's quite fair situation. Weight modifier is also not really good, as some light mechs are actually a hard counter for some heavies and assaults, like Puma prime vs MK II B or Owens B vs Mad dog C.

Whats wrong with that scenario? A skilled player is rewarded. Nothing wrong with that. Its an incentive for new players to get better

Besides if a Cadet in an Uller is pwning dudes in beatsticks, they should be rewarded, even if they are gods gift to Mechwarrior.

[Come and See]

It's not like Assault's or Heavie's are invincible. I've seen many people rushing MK2's to have themselves ganged up by a bunch of Light Mech's.

I honestly would rather see a system like this.

Let's say the Rank's are numbered. 1 = cadet, 7 (?) = sakhan.

The system would sum up everyone's rank. Say 1, 3, 6, 6, 7 = 4.6 avg.

I would like a system that would keep everyone's ranks close together. I.E. if you are below 60% of the team's avg. score then you will automatically have your rank boosted when you join or if you fall behind. So if a new player joins a team that is 5 avg they will automatically be pushed up to Rank 3 to help games even. Obviously this would have to be adjusted to only kick in if there's say 5 people on both sides.

[Taemien]

Wouldn't mind seeing something like that in the current system. I hate joining midgame when heavies are the norm. You WILL be shot first. If they can keep you down its one less heavy they have to worry about.

Usually I sprint around in a Raven at that point so my teammates get a huge benefit.

[=KoS= Tripod]

I agree with the whole clan heavies go after crap lights for free points thing.

I do it all the time. It's easy kills and easy points, and having a modifier to change that will make the game much more realistic.
(I don't know how many times I've ran past an Atlas to take out that light mech I saw crest the hill in my MadCat)

If you get awarded for punching above your weight, while getting less for beating on cadets in your UberMech, it will be more balanced IMO.

Also, as far as hard counters go, if you're doing the job your mech is supposed to do, instead of dicking around and shooting everyone, you should get extra anyway. This promotes playing properly.

[(TLL) Heretic]

How about a subtle change to further reduce C-Bill farming?

Damage to a live vehicle or BA is the only way to earn C-Bills, so when a BA exits or Ejects from any vehicle then that vehicle becomes neutral (yellow?) and can no-longer be farmed for extra C-Bills.

So we'd have modifiers based on Tonnage, Rank and BA equipment carried (in the case of killing ejected pilots or dedicated BA), but if we cored a 'mech we'd get the damage dealt and the (hopefully much increased) BA kill bonus....we wouldn't get all of the cash for all of the remaining armour points on the vehicle?

EDIT: The APC would have to be immune from going neutral on exit of course.

[MerfMerf]

Not sure I like the suggestions on vehicles being neutral on exit. Will promote early ejection I think....

Suggestions on adding/changing modifiers to curb some CBill-gain is good though I think. I might not agree with all details but the overall concept of diminishing returns for a valuable player (high ranked in an expensive mech) killing invaluable players (low ranked player in cheap mech). I think its important to calculate the value as a combination of equipment and rank in these cases. It makes sense for balancing and has the added effect it lets the player affect its own situation a bit more. Also would sorta promote giving cash to lower ranked players and keep high ranked players in cheaper assets to balance out the negative effects. Could be a fun balance game to play.

/Merf - Maybe as a different game mode even?

[HAARP]

It's simple. C-Bills based on damage dealt only, "finishing" an asset should only yield a tiny fraction of the current reward.
Maybe add on top of that some of the proposed multipliers for tonnage, rank and BA equipment.

[MerfMerf]

I thought finishing an asset simply gave you reward for damaging the other sections to 0?
If the above is incorrect then I agree that is a problem. If the above is correct then I think its proper. I would not want to have to "mine" an asset by shooting all its parts to 0 before finishing it to gain all the cash from it.

/Merf - What is this reward you speak off?

[HAARP]

That is correct. You get the cash for the remaining components. But I see the problem you mention.

How about getting no cash for mining components off empty mechs and only a tiny bonus for "finishing"?

[(TLL) Heretic]

That is correct. You get the cash for the remaining components. But I see the problem you mention.

How about getting no cash for mining components off empty mechs?

Example:  I went out in an Owens B today and destroyed a Shadow Cat and a Bushy (both had no driver, the bushy was headshot the SCat a pristine disconnect) I farmed over 70k for no effort on my part, I returned to the hanger, traded in and bought a Loki LB-20X, from 40k 'mech to >90k 'mech took around 3 minutes.

This has to be considered an exploit as to any veteran player the early game lasts around 3-5 minutes, the mid game about another 5minutes and then we're in Clan Heavies from all the C-Bills we are getting (Killing the enemy & trashing empty 'mechs); the game would be better with less reward for farming behaviour (folks would steal more 'mechs for repair or trade-in  - sure, and that's not a bad thing either because it's balanced by the pilot getting back alive and the time the journey took for the reward).

@Merf, let them eject early if they want, an easy kill for the scoreboard and fresh 'mech for an ejected pilot.