Dues Ex : Human Revolution

[TheDrgnRbrn]

Yeah, the liscense is gonna end up a lot like Mechwarrior I feel. But in no way is it dead or dying.

I am interested to hear what it lost that made it less 'lawless subculture of an oppressive society dominated by computer technology' and more post human/mage run. Sounds more like a problem with your gaming group rather than the setting.

[Stahlseele]

Basically, it is impossible to play anything else than a magical character with a legit license and doing the complete separate identities due to both the explanations in the fluff and the rules in the books . .
You are getting scanned for everything on your body every some meters. And the probility of your sin failing is at about 80% or so . .
Magic can not simply be scanned like that.
Furthermore, they took away the awesome you could do under SR3 with the new rules.
Strength is MEANINGLESS . . it does not even allow you to do crazy stuff anymore in most cases . .
The Matrix is not gibsonian in nature anymore, but more like the astral realm now with the wifi.
and it's home to the very people we loathe even today . . script kiddies and bot nets and spam.

[TheDrgnRbrn]

Again, that sounds more like your gaming group, though the fluff does lend itself to that in some ways. But when you think about it, thats how stuff will end up. Of course the net will be populated by that stuff. Did you think it was going to go away in seventy years?

But the scanning thing is really a gaming group thing. I tend to play with a bunch of guys who still like the pink mohawk style, but when I gm I keep them on their toes. Not by scanning them all the time and crap, but by taking note of when they forget about a datatrail, or if they leave bits of clothing and stuff at the scene. Sometimes they catch it, sometimes they dont. Makes for great plothooks.

[Stahlseele]

Their Error was to NOT go simply 90 years into the Future of the 1980's . .
But to go 60 Years into the future OF 2010!

[TheDrgnRbrn]

I wouldn't call  that an error, I would call that evolution. Back when the internet was really taking off, the idea of the Matrix must have sounded pretty fantastic. To us, we just say meh, and it loses its effect on us.

[Stahlseele]

The SR3 Matrix involved WIRES INTO YOUR BRAIN and a Tron like looking World FULL of Dangers!
The SR4 MAtrix involves glorified Smart-Phones for everybody and literally their mom . . And due to Hot Sim being weak sauce and usually not really worth it everybody is going in via Cold Sim, if they don't just AR all the time . . So there is literally nothing that is more dangerous than your cellphone being broken and you needing a new one . .
Me and my group, we each read the rules, discussed them, playtested them and came to one unanimous decision: blech!

[(TLL) Heretic]

*snip*
I read a PC gamer preview a while back and they covered how a character solved a mission 3 different ways, Guns, Sneak, and Social. So we know doing things the sneaky way is at least possible. No clue if it is done well of course.

TBH it wasn't really done that well, sure you could customise your hero and his weapons how you wanted them, but only the mission on Liberty Island was designed for a non-lethal playstyle, it's a damn pity as it would be awesome to have been able to do play the entire game like Batman (leaving a trail of trussed up and drugged bad-guys in your wake), but it soon devolved into more familiar FPS territory fast IMO.

 No way to be non-lethal in DX? A couple of non-lethal walkthroughs and at least one video playthrough out there are begging to differ.

Wow, thanks Siilk, in 2000 it didn't occur to me to look online for a walkthrough, 'will enjoy watching those vids.  There's one particular part in Hells Kitchen where your ambushed by a dozen MJ-12 commandos where I could never figure out a way to get out without killing them all...I spent hours placing tripwire gastraps and moving the rubbish bins around with more gas traps on them to try and debilitate all the commandos, but I always had to kill most of them....looking forward to finding out how the guide solved that one (and others, there's several people the game forces you to have to kill as well IIRC).