Done till 4.0 is out -Due to invincible Shivas-

[Rytack]

Just letting everyone know that I will be gone till 4.0/wars version of MWLL is out.  Just got sick and tired of ballooning/missile spaming shivas.

They either have too much HP or it is just the bad net code.  Saw one LRM shiva today take EFFECTIVE (ie it appeared that most rounds -should- of been hitting it) fire from THREE huits (we were rather desperate to stop this guy) and he just ignored them, completed his strafing run and then RTBed.  Once he had his Shiva he never died.  It he had gotten to KN and was sitting at 35 kills to 3 deaths (and all 3 were from before he had his Shiva) when I got frustrated and left the server.  DEVs say that something like 5 seconds of direct fire from a huit will kill a Shiva, well that was not the case even with 3 huits of all reasonable skill hammering him non-stop for run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run after run.  You get the idea.

I understand that the fly boys want to have their fun.  But the fact that we had to almost WASTE 3 of our team slots on huits and still didn't stop him.  There is no way to argue that is OPed.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

The ELRM Shiva is horribly broken, don't feel bad.

Reasons? It's over 20 tons overweight (if you care about that) and massively outranges the counter unit. Take a dogfighting asf up after it, because at 1200+ all the guns on the huit prime get massive damage dropoff. The cuac5 max range is 925m, and the cuac2 hits 1200m before suffering a damage dropoff, with a max range of 1500m.

[~SJ~ Griffin]

yeah its pretty hard to kill but not impossible. And really, the best way to counter it without using other ASF is prevent other teammates from narcing for it and then it has to get its own filthy narcs  If someone is narcing for it, it will never have a reason to drop below 1200m other than to get ammo.

Xarg did hit it on the nail though, one sulla, or even a sparrowhawk, can ruin that thing's day.

[=KoS= Saber15]

If the Shiva is narcing for itself, just grab a Loki or Beatstick and blast him once he gets near (~500m); LBX20 says its max range is 350m but it's actually much further than that.
If the Shiva is just flying away back to base, grab a Sulla Prime and chase him down, or a HGauss Shiva. Get a RAC5 Shiva if the ELRM Shiva is flown by a pilot that flies in straight lines.
Ram his wings if the Shiva is that much of an issue; it won't kill him, but it will disable his craft. Don't do this in a Sparrowhawk, as it's bugged and will probably kill him and reward you with a kill, which is an exploit (as said by the devs), and don't do it on TLL servers as they dislike ramming for some reason.

[Taemien]

The ELRM Shiva is horribly broken, don't feel bad.

Reasons? It's over 20 tons overweight (if you care about that) and massively outranges the counter unit. Take a dogfighting asf up after it, because at 1200+ all the guns on the huit prime get massive damage dropoff. The cuac5 max range is 925m, and the cuac2 hits 1200m before suffering a damage dropoff, with a max range of 1500m.

Pretty much this. When I use the LRM Shiva I stay 1200 off the ground. This means unless I'm directly over your head, I'm 1300-1600 away from AA which can't even touch it. Usually Shiva's don't narc for themselves if they can help it. So cap that Raven asap. If you can't be narc'd the Shiva is a waste of air space and assets. Unless of course the pilot is daring (or stupid) enough to dip down below 1000 meters. Its at this point your AA fire can wast them.

The most effective thing against a ELRM Shiva is a Heavy Guass Shiva or a Sulla. Huits just can't do much about them. Huits are better against those Tbolt Sullas and Firebomb Shivas.

But yes, LBX10s and 20s are the best weapon here. If they are staying out of range, they're using a narcer. If they don't have one, keep ready and KEEP MOVING. They have to get REALLY close to narc you if you're moving.

[CHHš Rampage]

In most games and RL aeros(aircraft)are glass cannons. They pack one hell of a punch and use speed and range as their defense. In MWLL the maps are generally too small to allow for either the speed or the range plus the aeros are comparatively SLOW. To compensate for this the Devs hav made them into flying tanks. The best weapon to take out a tank is the LBX and that is the case with aeros also. Unfortunately that means you have to be close enough to them to use the weapon which will never happen with a good pilot. IN PUG games I do not bother with the HUit. I take out the LBX Demolisher and I will get a few aero kills every match. And yes, I even get some LRM Shivas.

[Kadreal]

Yeah a good elrm shiva can stay outside of 1200m, it can even stay outside 1000m and fire 2 barrages without narc if they know what they are doing. This counters the best AA weapon at this time which is the LBX. It packs enough punch to really ruin their day in one shot. Unfortunately LBX don't have enough range to deal with aircraft that play at long range.

[(TLL)Frosted]

I think we need a lbx sulla

[Taemien]

I think we need a lbx sulla

I'd love one of these. I wouldn't mind seeing Bomber or LRM ASF needing escorts. Just as long as they don't die from initial contact, actually let the fighters duke it out and if the interceptors win, then they can destroy or chase off the bombers/boats. If the escorts win, the bombers/boats can do their thing.

2 LBX 10s and like 2 UAC 5s would be pretty sexy on a Sulla if its not beyond its pod capability. It wouldn't kill a Shiva in one shot, but another Sulla escort could ruin its day if its tunnel visioning a Shiva. Would be a nasty close support weapon too for ground assets.

[Mekabuser=12thVR=]

well the lbx dont have any range, and ill tell ya , the other night on sand, we had 3 dedi AA units plus one or two pilots TRYIN to counter 3 aero pilots and it was a joke. I mean the pilots were good, but not that good . By that I mean i was pouring serious lead into them at times and it amounted to nothing. At the same time you have aeros just doing things that are completely nonsensical like twisting and turning and twisting again. I mean if you combined a dragonfly with a bee and a hummingbird and a red bull aero slalom you wouldnt have something as maneuverable as MWLL aero assets.
I hope the improved netcode can address this.

[~SJ~ Griffin]

I will say even though the Shiva B is counterable(is that a word?) it should have its price raised to SKN. It is too much of a "Iwin" button to be at GC level

[=KoS= Saber15]

I think we need a lbx sulla

Sulla prime, drop the pointless MGs and swap the UAC/5s for a pair of LBX/5s. Or downgrade the aero-SSRM6s and get a pair of LBX/10s.

[ACE FIGHTER]

If there is one "gun" aero, ELRM shiva can't shoot their missiles.
We can't kill it with AA, but we can kill it with "gun" aero easily.

[sgnl05]

I will say even though the Shiva B is counterable(is that a word?) it should have its price raised to SKN. It is too much of a "Iwin" button to be at GC level

I don't think a price increase is enough, it needs to be changed.


It's only counterable if the pilot screws up. As taemien pointed out, there's not a lot of reason for it to drop below 1200 metres most of the time. Narcing is probably the only exception to that and does leave it open to AA fire, but with passive radar it isn't too hard to get within 1000 metres of a target without them noticing you, and then it only takes a few seconds to fire the narc and break off. It offers an observant huit pilot a small window of opportunity, but probably not enough to kill it if the pilot is good.

Not to mention, if getting within 1000 metres is likely to result in death, then the pilot can just choose not to narc and fire the erlrms from 1200+ metres. Sure it's a bit more difficult, but if it keeps you out of harm's way it's probably worth it.

If the pilot gets within 500 metres of anything with an LBX20, he really has screwed up. There is no reason why he should have to be that close to anything on the ground ever.

Using aerospace against it is only partially effective. If the shiva breaks off and runs back to base on full afterburner, it'll likely make it to the cover of the turrets before the enemy aerospace can kill it. Which means it can't kill anything of course, but if the AA aerospace doesn't hang around to keep a constant eye on it, it can just sneak out again with passive radar and get another run off before it gets noticed. Playing AA aerospace against a shiva isn't about killing it, just chasing it around constantly so that it can't kill anything else. I guess that's a counter of sorts, but only as long as the shiva pilot gets bored and takes something else before the AA aerospace pilot does.

Personally, I think the narc launcher and the BHP should be removed from that shiva. It's already got as much firepower as the best ground based LRM boat in the game, with the added bonus of an extra 500 metres range. Without all that stuff it'd still be able to swoop out of nowhere and deliver a devastating barrage from 1000 metres away, it'd just mean that it'd need a ground based narcer to make full use of the range of its erlrms, which is only fair I think.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

The ELRM's should be changed to LRM's. This makes it a> within weight limits, and b> a canon variant (alt config b). Sure, it makes it an airborne Vulture C with a bigger price tag, but the Novacat is a pumped up Clan version of the Awesome (ingame), and the Shiva is immune to LT attacks for the trade off that a Huit Prime will be able to start scraping it with the cuac2's as it enters firing range. Agreed the NARC should go, in place of the artemis, it could keep the bhp, or a bap and a c3, and the 8 tons of reloads gives it far more battlefield longevity than the Vulture C could ever hope to have.