Is that cheating? (post your suspicions here)

[(TLL)Siilk]

 As there is no designated place for such discussion, I think that board will do. The point is, as seen from this post, sometimes it's hard to say if some weird episode you just had was a case of cheating, a bug or just a feature that you haven't knew about. So, here we could ask about such questionable and see if someone knows something about it or encountered something similar before. That would make tracking exploits easier and let false accusations or

 So, to start, here's my stories:

 I was playing on SA_Mirage once and encountered a player who was attacking me in a stationary Raven C. I shot him a couple of times and noticed that it was Raven's RT that gets damage. Raven's torso was facing away from me(I was ~200m away from it at that time so I saw it clearly) but then it fires PPC and at me with Raven's RT still facing me. I continued to shoot it's rear torso and RT armor was decreasing until it was gone and CT started to deteriorate due to transferred damage and raven was destroyed. As I know that such mech behaviour could be achieved in 0.2.0 by switching to 3rd person view and selecting rear-faced camera, I was wondering if that was the case. I also remember encountering rear or side facing mechs from occasionally in 0.3.X so I presume such tricks with external camera could be done even now. Could I be right or it's just a case of client-server desync issue?

 My second story is somehow similar to the first one, but I'm pretty sure it was not a cheating but a bug of sort. While playing on sandblasted I saw an empty Thanathos in our hangar. It was damaged(most sections in orange) and standing in the hangar, with NO DRIVER status when selected. I tried to enter it but it was locked. Suddenly, mech damage begins to repair. After that it just moved out of the hangar, with no moving animation displayed. It wasn't even changing it's facing. My first thought was "one more NO DRIVER fucherf#cker", but after checking team roster, I haven't found any NO DRIVERs in our team, just the normal players' nicknames. I followed that Thanny and I found out that, while it was looking extremely weird("gliding" on the ground with no animation or facing change; no player registered in it) but otherwise it was pretty much normal mech: it was dealing damage to the enemies as well as receiving it to the proper locations(according to where is should be facing, not the visible model orientation) and finally destroyed. Interestingly enough, while it's laser animation was displayed to the direction it was facing, it's MRMs was flying as if it was facing it's enemy(see attached screenshots; Thanny was moving to the right side of the shot and shooting at the enemy, visible on the radar). I wanted to ask if someone else saw this too, but as I saw no players complaining about it or freaking out about "weird Thanny", I just called it a day and ignored the issue.

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[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I've seen the 2nd thing before, pretty sure it's just a sync issue.

I can add a #3 however, Clipping.

I've seen several users, I won't call out names, that have been using clipping through objects to their advantage.  Case 1 i've seen is using a BA to clip into part of a pyramid on SandBlast making them invincible at the same time the BA is able to fire out a TAG laser which their team mates use for arrows and lrms.

Case 2 is similar on Thunder Ridge, a mech would dodge into some of the rocks on the high side on the side where everyone plays.  The player model is basically covered by the rock which makes them invincible but they're able to fire their lasers through the rocks.  I thought at first that the player did it mistakenly the first time, but they did it 3 times in a row until another player on my team was able to get an angle that could see a part of the model sticking out the rock formation that could be damaged and killed him.

I'm not sure it's cheating persay, since they're just using a flaw in the cry engine, but it's not really sportsman like.

[DFDelta]

1.) Seen something similar before.
I've been fighting with a Uller and everything was normal, but suddenly it "froze" and started shooting out of his backside. Might be directly related to the second "glitch", or it might be plain abuse of 3rd person view.


2.) I've seen that many times, usually after a short lagspike.
Might be some sort of desync, similar to the "ghost-mechs" that were rather common in 0.2.0.
Client loses track of vehicle/mech and refuses to update its pilot status/orientation and similar.


3.) Yup, I've seen similar things done by people on purpose. But that was on Mirage in the small canyons that lead trough most hills.

[Askis]

I can add a #3 however, Clipping.

I've seen several users, I won't call out names, that have been using clipping through objects to their advantage.  Case 1 i've seen is using a BA to clip into part of a pyramid on SandBlast making them invincible at the same time the BA is able to fire out a TAG laser which their team mates use for arrows and lrms

I've seen this done not with BA but with an APC inside the northern pyramid.
BA were still able to spawn and exit the pyramid, but the APC was pretty much invincible.
Don't know how to get an APC  in there and I don't want to know either

[~SJ~ Wolf]

My second story is somehow similar to the first one, but I'm pretty sure it was not a cheating but a bug of sort. While playing on sandblasted I saw an empty Thanathos in our hangar. It was damaged(most sections in orange) and standing in the hangar, with NO DRIVER status when selected. I tried to enter it but it was locked. Suddenly, mech damage begins to repair. After that it just moved out of the hangar, with no moving animation displayed. It wasn't even changing it's facing. My first thought was "one more NO DRIVER fucherf#cker", but after checking team roster, I haven't found any NO DRIVERs in our team, just the normal players' nicknames. I followed that Thanny and I found out that, while it was looking extremely weird("gliding" on the ground with no animation or facing change; no player registered in it) but otherwise it was pretty much normal mech: it was dealing damage to the enemies as well as receiving it to the proper locations(according to where is should be facing, not the visible model orientation) and finally destroyed. Interestingly enough, while it's laser animation was displayed to the direction it was facing, it's MRMs was flying as if it was facing it's enemy(see attached screenshots; Thanny was moving to the right side of the shot and shooting at the enemy, visible on the radar). I wanted to ask if someone else saw this too, but as I saw no players complaining about it or freaking out about "weird Thanny", I just called it a day and ignored the issue.

I have seen this a few times, just last night on SA Marshes on TLL-TX a NO DRIVER MKII glided nearly all the way across the map. It promptly disappeared a few moments later. I am thinking this is an issue comes up (at least sometimes) with mechs that are left after a pilot CTDs or force quits.

[=CJW= Zweistein000 (W)]

Today I saw another thing the TLAhamser was running around in an osiris (easy kill) and I hit him with thin gauss form Mad dog A. Shots clearly vent in and as he wasn't moving dual gauss shot would have either destroyed him or severely crippled him, but his torso showed no damage. So I said to my self got you bugger, and decided to test again just to be sure. As he moved a little he again came to a complete stop. I shot him again this time in the back. Again no damage. So I called out his name, said he was a cheater, BUT by the time I finished typing he was dead. Killed by my friend. He said that he wasn't registering my damage.  My ping was around 100 and his was around 80, but he was standing still so this shouldn't made any difference. Now I'm just confused.

[spoiler]I won't say anything for now - no requests for banning, but note TLAhamnster you are under scrutiny

If this starts reoccurring  in a regular basis then I'll have no choice but to

[/spoiler]

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

your client can be desynced from the server which is why some hits don't register

[=KoS= Saber15]

Both are just syncing errors. I've seen phantom Atlases hovering around on the battlefield, and get blasted from 800m away by a Gauss Vulture that wasn't look at me (in 0.3, so it's not the third person exploit).

"one more NO DRIVER fucherf#cker"

Hey, don't diss us YES DRIVERs 

[tfcw2000]

After reading all this, i'll never say again that one is cheating.(in MWLL)
I thought these guys where trying to hack/cheat but apparently these phenomenons are rather server sync related or either little bugs....

BIG Mea Culpa for those I ever called or suspected from cheating ! 

Greet'z,

[(TLL)Andreas]

 I was playing on SA_Mirage once and encountered a player who was attacking me in a stationary Raven C. I shot him a couple of times and noticed that it was Raven's RT that gets damage. Raven's torso was facing away from me(I was ~200m away from it at that time so I saw it clearly) but then it fires PPC and at me with Raven's RT still facing me. I continued to shoot it's rear torso and RT armor was decreasing until it was gone and CT started to deteriorate due to transferred damage and raven was destroyed. As I know that such mech behaviour could be achieved in 0.2.0 by switching to 3rd person view and selecting rear-faced camera, I was wondering if that was the case. I also remember encountering rear or side facing mechs from occasionally in 0.3.X so I presume such tricks with external camera could be done even now. Could I be right or it's just a case of client-server desync issue?

 

it's just a case of client-server desync issue?

This is most likely the issue, I get this problem from time to time and mostly on mirage.
Its usually only 1 mech that this happens to and he/she is mostly only the enemy team.
For me this visual bug/desync only lasts for a few seconds/minutes and not an entire match.

Its not that big of an issue as you can still damage them but it is quite frustrating when sneaking up on that novacat C only to get a face full of erppcs from him when he looks like he is watching something else

[Dubious]

I've seen the 2nd thing before, pretty sure it's just a sync issue.

I can add a #3 however, Clipping.

I've seen several users, I won't call out names, that have been using clipping through objects to their advantage.  Case 1 i've seen is using a BA to clip into part of a pyramid on SandBlast making them invincible at the same time the BA is able to fire out a TAG laser which their team mates use for arrows and lrms.

Case 2 is similar on Thunder Ridge, a mech would dodge into some of the rocks on the high side on the side where everyone plays.  The player model is basically covered by the rock which makes them invincible but they're able to fire their lasers through the rocks.  I thought at first that the player did it mistakenly the first time, but they did it 3 times in a row until another player on my team was able to get an angle that could see a part of the model sticking out the rock formation that could be damaged and killed him.

I'm not sure it's cheating persay, since they're just using a flaw in the cry engine, but it's not really sportsman like.

I got "called out" while playing on Thunder Ridge the other day for using the clipping hack, which I was doing unintentionally.  I could clearly see the enemy I was firing at through my cockpit, so to me I had no idea that my mech was mostly obstructed by cliff.  Now that I keep an eye on it, it seems like lasers will always hit as long as your crosshairs are on the enemy, while as we all know most weapons will hit trees and cliffs and pyramids if you are anywhere near them.  I wonder if this is a known issue?

[BlueT]

I've seen the 2nd thing before, pretty sure it's just a sync issue.

I can add a #3 however, Clipping.

I've seen several users, I won't call out names, that have been using clipping through objects to their advantage.  Case 1 i've seen is using a BA to clip into part of a pyramid on SandBlast making them invincible at the same time the BA is able to fire out a TAG laser which their team mates use for arrows and lrms.

Case 2 is similar on Thunder Ridge, a mech would dodge into some of the rocks on the high side on the side where everyone plays.  The player model is basically covered by the rock which makes them invincible but they're able to fire their lasers through the rocks.  I thought at first that the player did it mistakenly the first time, but they did it 3 times in a row until another player on my team was able to get an angle that could see a part of the model sticking out the rock formation that could be damaged and killed him.

I'm not sure it's cheating persay, since they're just using a flaw in the cry engine, but it's not really sportsman like.

I got "called out" while playing on Thunder Ridge the other day for using the clipping hack, which I was doing unintentionally.  I could clearly see the enemy I was firing at through my cockpit, so to me I had no idea that my mech was mostly obstructed by cliff.  Now that I keep an eye on it, it seems like lasers will always hit as long as your crosshairs are on the enemy, while as we all know most weapons will hit trees and cliffs and pyramids if you are anywhere near them.  I wonder if this is a known issue?

That seems dubious.

[(TLL)KitLightning]

... I'm not sure it's cheating persay, since they're just using a flaw in the cry engine, but it's not really sportsman like.

... I wonder if this is a known issue?

Its an very well documented exploit in Crysis and it is considered cheating. And yes it is known in MWLL! Clipping in any way is a direct exploit of game mechanics. Feel free not to exploit this!

[xInVicTuSx]

Last night there was a floating beatstick that was untargetable on radar and chasing my Uller around the map shooting at me.
Was like a horror movie, couldn't tell where to shoot or where he was facing.

Luckily a friendly Awesome helped me and we took him out. Was worst case scenario for that bug though.

I never try to exploit with the Ncat, cause I only use the Prime and can never remember which side the lasers are on.

hehehe OW!

[MerfMerf]

Heh. Invalid facing is rather annoying at times. Does not happen very often for me so when it does it can come as quite a surprise. Remember flanking in an Adder and finding a juicy Timberwolf B standing still and showing his back armour to me, so I take my time putting PPCs into its back and did not bother to move for cover (the thing would have to turn around first after all) and suddenly I get a face full of Timberwolf B alpha shooting out its back. My opponent must have thought me a complete retard for just staying there in plain view >_<.

/Merf - Adder face hurt >_<