VTOLs in 0.3.2

[Evgen]

Could someone from devs explain the purpose of VTOLS in game except that they look cool and can hover?

Hawkmoth prime, weapon Ltgauss, sensors - BAP.
Supposed to be a sniper variant to hunt down light targets or finish damaged targets. I do not know may be it is me but I hardly able to hit standing still targets and I do not have a clue how to hit light mech or boat that moves. Everything with armor higher then medium do not care about Ltgauss. Never saw that someone use it. Absolutely useless variant as to me.

Hawkmoth A, weapon 2 LRM 10, NARC, sensors - BAP
The most valuable variant from all. But still needless on the battlefiled as all its roles can be much better performed by other units gound or air.

Hawkmoth B, weapon 2 MG, 1 RAC 5, sensors - no.
Supposed to be good AA but again can be succesfully replaced by other units. RAC 5 is cool but still hard to target and requires medium range.
And if there is at least one AA (partisan which can reach with fire from other side of the map) on the field you can forget about medium range at all with such maneuvrability and speed Hawkmoth has. Could be good BA killer but no sensors make it useless in comparison with other BA hunters.

Hawkmoth C, weapon 1 Thunderbolt, 1 LRM 10, 1 NARC, sensors - no.
This variant firepower just pitiful. You nerfed Thunderbolt too much. No free tons no sensors. Utterly useless variant.

I remember there was Variant with 1 PPC and 2 LRM 5 and BAP. It was more or less nice so why did you remove it?

To summarize Hawkmoth roles can be succesfully performed by other units. If Airspace is not available on the map then it can be used as NARCing tools but still useless as reconing without BHP and C3 which for instance Raven has or SparrowHawk.

Well I am not begging devs to implement Variant D (http://wiki.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php?title=File:HawkmothD.jpg) but just curious if they think about changing somehow Hawkmoth so it has its unique role on battlefield in upcoming patches?

[=KoS= Saber15]

The prime advantages of taking a Hawkmoth over a mech is its speed and maneuverability; I can fly away from battlearmor upwards, instead of slowly running away with the BA chasing me, if I were in a mech or tank.

The LtGauss one is pretty terrible with the current control scheme.

The 2xLRM10 variant is actually a very good unit, as it's a LRM boat that cannot be killed conventionally and its effectively immune to battlearmor, along with its high speed.

The RAC/5 one is good at killing distracted enemies and slaughtering unsuspecting BA, but there's mechs that fulfill its role much better (RAC/5 Hollander). It's great fun to use, but a single AA unit makes it useless.

The TBolt one is pretty meh, as the Thunderbolts have terribad hit detection. It does great if you have a nearby APC for rearming + lots of stationary targets

There was a 2xSSRM-4 Hawkmoth in 0.2, and it was very fun to use if you could deal with the paper armor on flying assets in 0.2

[=CJW= Zweistein000 (W)]

Actually the MAIN difference between ASF and VTOL should be armor:
ASF should have more speed and less armor and stronger loadouts when compared to VTOL, which should have less spead, greater stability (idea: ctrl - hover in place like a deployed LY, but in air) and more armor.

IMO you should make current ASF faster and lightly armored (feels stupid how Shiva can survive dual clan Gauss) and VTOLs more stable (dont mind VTOLs keeping current armor).

ALSO: This opinion is shared by both me and my dad (Erazem predjamski, who isn't a part if this forum, but plays the game)

[Taemien]

I love the LRM 10 variant of the Hawkmoth. Its just plain mean.

The other variants are meh.

The RAC one is good against LRM Hawkmoth's and thats it. Replace with UAC5 or UAC2 (maybe two UAC2's with no extra ammo). Or even a LBX5..

Lt Gauss one is pretty bad. Replace with a ERPPC and now we're talking.

Tbolt... one shot and its a slow air asset compared to ASF. I haven't found a use for this one at all. LRM Variant does way more damage. Make a single Firebomb variant for lawls.


I'd love to see a MRM20 variant or a SSRM or Dual SRM variant.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I will say i only use the HW A as it plays the best support role and cause my aim sucks in the VTOL platform :-/

[EagleFire]

I love the LRM 10 variant of the Hawkmoth. Its just plain mean.

The other variants are meh.

The RAC one is good against LRM Hawkmoth's and thats it. Replace with UAC5 or UAC2 (maybe two UAC2's with no extra ammo). Or even a LBX5..

Lt Gauss one is pretty bad. Replace with a ERPPC and now we're talking.

Tbolt... one shot and its a slow air asset compared to ASF. I haven't found a use for this one at all. LRM Variant does way more damage. Make a single Firebomb variant for lawls.


I'd love to see a MRM20 variant or a SSRM or Dual SRM variant.

SRM variant would be one of the best. Also I've said it before and I'll say it again. Lets keep the RAC Hawkmoth, but give it RL-20's instead of the pointless MG's.

[Brainwright]

Actually the MAIN difference between ASF and VTOL should be armor:
ASF should have more speed and less armor and stronger loadouts when compared to VTOL, which should have less spead, greater stability (idea: ctrl - hover in place like a deployed LY, but in air) and more armor.

IMO you should make current ASF faster and lightly armored (feels stupid how Shiva can survive dual clan Gauss) and VTOLs more stable (dont mind VTOLs keeping current armor).

ALSO: This opinion is shared by both me and my dad (Erazem predjamski, who isn't a part if this forum, but plays the game)

Aerospace doesn't need less armor.  Ground assets need to be able to fire upward.  Not until some method of just firing with the arms of the mech is implemented will we have an appropriate balance between air and ground assets.

[KingLeerUK]

Aerospace doesn't need less armor.  Ground assets need to be able to fire upward.  Not until some method of just firing with the arms of the mech is implemented will we have an appropriate balance between air and ground assets.

Use L-CTRL to crouch in any 'Mech for increased elevation of weapons.  Some 'Mechs (like the Novacat) get a bonus, allowing for a 75' up-angle, which is pretty generous in my book.

[Brainwright]

Use L-CTRL to crouch in any 'Mech for increased elevation of weapons.  Some 'Mechs (like the Novacat) get a bonus, allowing for a 75' up-angle, which is pretty generous in my book.

I might find this agreeable if crouching wasn't so clumsy.  It would be a lot easier if holding crouch braked you and then crouched.  You can't always notice that you've even stopped, particularly with the shake involved.  Another good change would be breaking crouch whenever you start accelerating.

As it stands, the complexity is such that only keeping your eye on the indicators would allow you to do it quickly, but then you need to reacquire the target.  Hell, you'd  make fighting battle armor a lot easier, too.

[GB-72AT Talon]

i only recently learned about the crouch feature

ive been trying it on all sorts of mechs, basically any time theres an aero around i try it out

yes it should be automatic, if you hit CTRL the mech should stop and crouch and hitting W should make it un-crouch and start moving forward

but i can live without that.......what i can't live without is the fact that crouching pretty much doesn't do any good as the aero/vtol pilot will stay directly above you where it doesn't help to crouch, and to make matters worse, you are now stationary stuck to the ground like with glue, so the vtol hawkmoth hovering above and out of sight in crouched mech at 1500meters altitude now can rain down LRM's-a-plenty on your head and you cant even move, unless you un-crouch....which defeats the damn purpose.....

a crouched mech should get nearly 90 degrees of articulation relative to latitude, maybe not 90 degrees, make it 80 maybe, give the VTOL that one ounce of space directly above, where if they are persistent enough they can stay out of direct line of fire, but then the other teamates can have their way with him, so he better not stay there long.......

make crouching worth using guys, please

[KrazedOmega]

It would be a lot easier if holding crouch braked you and then crouched. 

yes it should be automatic, if you hit CTRL the mech should stop and crouch and hitting W should make it un-crouch and start moving forward

Bind "Throttle stop" in the action mapper to lctrl. Then you can just press the same key twice, once to stop, and when you've stopped moving press again to crouch.

It's not the same as you suggested but it makes it a little easier.

[=KoS= Tripod]

well, if air assets didn't have such ridiculous maneuverability so that mechs and other ASF could actually aim at them and take them down, then we wouldn't have this problem and we would have some cool air to air battles going on

[Taemien]

I've done dirty things to air assets with a cougar with crouching. Same with Uziel and Mauler too. Best AA weapons aren't UAC5/2's, but LBX and ERLBLs. Getting good at swatting them down with Gauss and PPCs too.

I would like to see some heavier VTOLs, they are pretty fun to pilot once you get the knack of it. At first I hated the .3.x controls but now I love them because of the crazy shit you can pull off.

[=CJW= Zweistein000 (W)]

stuff

Aerospace doesn't need less armor.  Ground assets need to be able to fire upward.  Not until some method of just firing with the arms of the mech is implemented will we have an appropriate balance between air and ground assets.

Yes it does! Tell me than how can  an ASF with 5 tonnes of armor survive a DIRECT fappING DUAL GAUSS SHOT when In theory the gauss shot woud not only destroy the ASF, but fly straight trough!

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Actually the MAIN difference between ASF and VTOL should be armor:
ASF should have more speed and less armor and stronger loadouts when compared to VTOL, which should have less spead, greater stability (idea: ctrl - hover in place like a deployed LY, but in air) and more armor.

Nope, never.
VTOLs in general can have something like... up to 30 tons if I remember well. ASFs have up to 100 tons weight. ASF should have all advantages over VTOL, especially in armor. Though in future it could be changed so that ASFs could suffer many over-time damage issues, like getting sensors destroyed, weapons exploding, wings cut off, etc. while VTOLs would keep flying without any notable disadvantages till very end. They also IMO could be more reliable in hovering and moving on sides, maybe also give it a special feature which would allow them to keep constant height over terrain while moving in any direction - it'd make them very easy to pilot, giving notable advantage to the pilot despite of disadvantage in armor and weapons. It'd also make them far better scouts than they are now, and allow more varied tactics than just balooning as it's now.