Author Topic: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes  (Read 19295 times)

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Offline ~SJ~ Wolf

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2011, 05:34:54 AM »
interesting, was there anything that you covered that wasn't in the curriculum but should be added?

DMG multipliers, Circle fighting tactics, heat system, engine damage, gauss rifle destruction.... possibly a few other things.

Offline SquareSphere

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2011, 05:56:48 PM »
Interesting, it looks like there's a want for more intermediate training (I consider that stuff intermediate/advance course work).

any thoughts on putting together an intermediate/advance mech curriculum?  Definitely want input from the trainers that have had classes.

Offline =KoS= Tripod

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2011, 06:23:09 PM »
I noticed you talk about advanced classes

What do you think about battle training (trainee(s) vs. trainer(s) in certain situations where players need work)
I had one with Blu Haze and Centrid a few days ago (Me in assault vs. several fast assets at point blank range or one tieing me up while another tries to wear me out from long range) and it worked pretty well

I always thought I was way worse at it but it turns out my FPS is crap (even when it was just me and them my FPS dropped to below 10 when they were both firing RACs and misslies etc. not that bad with lasers)  I still learned a few thing I didn't in all of my months playing (AECM stops NARCs in it's vicinity, learning how to better use the environment to avoid long range enemies firing on you during a close range brawl, how to FBomb more accurately) so I think the classes are worth it.

I can even join to help them practice as long as there aren't too many of them and I'm around

Offline SquareSphere

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2011, 06:40:59 PM »
That's the trick to advance classes.  They're treading on territory that is usually covered in good clan/unit training or it's something that's developed after months of pubbing (and with luck finding hidden info like the AECM trick).

I'm not all keen on advance classes as it would take a lot more coordination than i think our school is ready for.

Intermediate is more about target selection, some tricks of the trade, and probably asset selections for counters and tactics.  Hmm it actually might be better to just break it down into roles or weight classes.

Such as

- Recon/Support advance electronic suites c3, NARC, TAG, APC etc
- Artillery/Missile systems/Snipping
- Flanking/Hunter Killer roles (mobility focus offensive tactics)
- Main Battle Line (how to successfully push, hold lines, tactical retreats in good order, will also cover use of heavies and assaults to push through lines)

Even these might be hard to do in a classroom environment, but we could throw some documentation in the wiki to go over it.

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2011, 06:46:07 PM »
lol, the way our class went was Me: "hey guys, I'm not that good in assault mechs vs. fast brawlers. Can you spawn fast brawlers and fight me at close range?" Them: "Ok"
Every round they'd get another mech to mix it up, and that was about it
at one point Centrid just mentioned the NARC thing as a kind of random trivia

not really that hard IMO :-\

Offline Warhammer WHM-6R

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2011, 07:55:17 PM »
I think that it will be hard to get really green people here because they will usually have had a few games by the time they find this forum. This makes it important to be able to do "Intermediate" training. Maybe a few types of classes can be thought out and depending on what the trainee wants we can vary. There should also be a class that can be done without voice but that will have to be a VERY simple one.

I would start every session with a Scat A or B brawl and then see what needs most attention. Focus on training that for a first session. Sniping lessons would be difficult with only 1v1 I think.

Also give them homework. Give them a mission to train on their own. With a goal someone will learn a lot better. Some examples are: Take an Owens C and make 5 kills in a match. You are not allowed to make a kill until all the arms of all the enemys you are engaging for 10 games. Take the Plastic Fantastic (Osiris C), donate all your cash and earn 25k cbills without dying.

Make the missions realistic for the skill level of the player but not too easy.

(I am also going to set myself some of these goals because to be honest I probably could use some improvement :P)

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Offline GB-Bear

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2011, 09:15:20 PM »
I did some training for Ghost Bear today. Once voice comm was sorted, it boiled down a High Level overview of some basic-intermediate tactics and maneuvers. I hope he gained something from it.

Oh, don't worry. I definitely did. The most that I learned was probably that, I have a lot to learn. I've only had the chance to play the game about 4 or 5 times prior to the training session (Seeing as Friday night was the first day I got my new CD Key from EA) and I still have plenty to learn. I honestly still need to figure out all of the keys. At first, I figured I'd map the keys to things that I'm accustomed to so my learning curve of pressing keys and making things happen without thinking about it wasn't so steep, but in the end, after the training session, I went in and switched everything to the default settings, because there was too many conflicts with my custom key mapping. I'll have to get used to using E to target enemies instead of using it as an action key, z for zoom instead of right clicking, and everything else pretty much on the keyboard and mouse except for shift, left control, and ASDW are different. Oh, and TAB. Nothing else besides those things about the key mapping is the same or even close to the games I've played, so first I'll have to learn all of those things. Then, I'll need to get used to mouse inertia, as well as throttle management and mech inertia. The thing I think I remember most from it was damage management, spreading damage across your mech.

I think that it will be hard to get really green people here because they will usually have had a few games by the time they find this forum. This makes it important to be able to do "Intermediate" training. Maybe a few types of classes can be thought out and depending on what the trainee wants we can vary. There should also be a class that can be done without voice but that will have to be a VERY simple one.

I would start every session with a Scat A or B brawl and then see what needs most attention. Focus on training that for a first session. Sniping lessons would be difficult with only 1v1 I think.

Also give them homework. Give them a mission to train on their own. With a goal someone will learn a lot better. Some examples are: Take an Owens C and make 5 kills in a match. You are not allowed to make a kill until all the arms of all the enemys you are engaging for 10 games. Take the Plastic Fantastic (Osiris C), donate all your cash and earn 25k cbills without dying.

Make the missions realistic for the skill level of the player but not too easy.

(I am also going to set myself some of these goals because to be honest I probably could use some improvement :P)

I found the forum before I had any experience. Unfortunately it was because of EA and their CD Keys. Even though I had a few games before training, I really wish I would have went through an entire training process first, because I think I integrated habits from other games into my play, and those are terrible habits in this game. I think Basic training should rid you of those habits, and get you into a state where you can get a good solid foundation on maneuvering, firing and being patient instead of jumpy, get used to mech inertia and mouse inertia. The first session should be starting with the basics, and train them until you think that they can effectively utilize those techniques, even if its in multiple sessions. Next session do a quick review that uses all of the basic techniques, and then do intermediate techniques, and then go through and do advanced in another session.

I think that Wolf did a very good job teaching me. Unfortunately, I still think I need to relearn everything from scratch, seeing as this is unlike any game I've played before. Last time I played a mech game like this was about 9 or 10 years ago, and back then I was too young to understand everything, I just had fun shooting things from a giant tall thing and hearing "Enemy mech destroyed". You can't run around in this game firing away and expect to get a big K/D ratio like in other games. I don't think this game requires more thought, but more or less a completely different style of play and a different game plan. Having a quicker reaction time, firing faster, and being more accurate than the other guy are not strategies that work in this game. Patience, mech systems management, and making each shot count all more likened to this game.

I'm not sure which is better for improving the curriculum, student input or trainer input, but Both are needed to perfect the training session. I think consistency across the board is going to be most effective. I think that if its possible, 2 trainers should be there for now with a student, so that ideas can be bounced, and we can ensure everything is being covered consistently. More students, the more questions can be asked that one student may need to know but doesn't know it yet. Trainers should change up who their partner is for the first 2 or 3 training sessions, so they know exactly what they'll be doing every session. Then they can train groups of people alone.

That's my input as a student. Hopefully it will contribute to the training program. Cause it's a very good idea.

Offline SquareSphere

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2011, 10:15:40 PM »
hmmm interesting input on the multiple instructor thing.  We'll keep that in mind moving forward.

Offline Warhammer WHM-6R

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2011, 01:04:46 AM »
That's my input as a student.

Thanks!!! It is very important to also have student imput so we can improve this thing.
Karma  ;D

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Offline =KoS= Tripod

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2011, 01:42:35 AM »
Hey!

Why don't I get student input karma >:(

Offline GB-Bear

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2011, 01:50:30 AM »
Woo Karma

I'm trying to do another training session soon, only this time starting from the ground up. I'll be happy to be a guinea pig in this experiment for the "Basic" curriculum.

I think it would be beneficial to try out a bunch of different things to start to get the best out of the experimental stages of this training program. Even if they don't sound like they would work well, you won't know for sure until you try it. Likewise, there are things that will sound like they will work perfectly, and look good on paper, but just don't work well when done real-time.

I will toss out suggestions here and there as I do this training, and most will probably sound ludicrous. If it does sound ridiculous, just remember, that they are only suggestions and you can choose whether to try it or not.  ;)

Is there anyone else that has done training who is basically new to the game? Anyone else with input? I'd like to hear how their session went, and what they learned from it.

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2011, 02:56:46 AM »
The Hell's Horses would like to sign up to run training sessions for those who would like them. We have a number of experienced officers and non-coms who are more than capable of introducing a new pilot to the how's and why's of mechanized combat in the 31st-century. There is no expectation that the trainee consider CHHs membership, however we would prefer to concentrate on pilots new to the battlefield who could benefit most from instruction.

We are all English-speakers, primarily in UTC -5, with a few between -6 and -8. Our schedules vary, but you may contact myself or any one of us directly on these forums to arrange a time and date and we will do our best to locate a training officer for you.



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Offline ~SJ~ Wolf

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2011, 04:00:43 AM »
I find that in the case of an intermediate player who already knows the basics but still dies too often for their liking, the best bet is to skrim them first with an outclassed mech (i.e trainer in a decent medium and the learner in a hvy or assault) to test them (i.e. gain a benchmark for where your learner is) then to focus on the challenges that the learner encountered in the skrim.

This will branch out then into what I would like to call a  Specialization Class, where the learner will be trained by 2 players of the learners desired specialty. (brawling for example). This would be a watch then do scenario that will require a feedback session after each match. In this manner you can help the learner grow towards their desired specialty through elimination of their weaknesses one skrim at a time.

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2011, 07:01:00 AM »
I find that in the case of an intermediate player who already knows the basics but still dies too often for their liking, the best bet is to skrim them first with an outclassed mech (i.e trainer in a decent medium and the learner in a hvy or assault) to test them (i.e. gain a benchmark for where your learner is) then to focus on the challenges that the learner encountered in the skrim.

This will branch out then into what I would like to call a  Specialization Class, where the learner will be trained by 2 players of the learners desired specialty. (brawling for example). This would be a watch then do scenario that will require a feedback session after each match. In this manner you can help the learner grow towards their desired specialty through elimination of their weaknesses one skrim at a time.

I approve, this sounds great for someone who has learned how to drive, and now needs to learn what is going on.
I would also like this as a second training session for people who need the first, more academic training session before getting into hands-on.

The advanced parts of the training would probably be best like this also.


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Offline Blu_Haze

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Re: Sandhurst RMC (MW Academy): Trainers and Classes
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2011, 11:56:32 PM »
Hey Square, just wanted to give you a little feedback on the classes I've had so far.

I definitely agree with Sean in that voice communication makes a massive difference, and in my opinion should even be something required. Even if the cadet doesn't have a microphone or if they aren't comfortable speaking, it would be a huge benefit to have them on Teamspeak even just to listen instead of everything being typed.

Another thing that I've noticed is that most of the regimen at this point is from the standard classroom perspective, as in you have an instructor who basically gives a lecture on the different systems and how to handle them effectively while they take notes. That sort of thing is necessary with some things, but I really felt that more in-cockpit time for the cadet would be great. Many people out there are very "hands-on learning" oriented, so being able to have more of an even mix of taking notes and being at the controls would be a big help.


As far as intermediate / advanced training is considered, I think that a different system altogether would be best. I'm in agreement with Wolf in that the best way to handle that sort of thing is simply by practicing different concepts routinely. Most of it isn't really something that you will be able to express in one class by itself like you can the basics, so you would need to have a trainer who is willing to spend multiple sessions practicing with the same cadets.


Although I had a good time with ManCowFish, it did start out somewhat awkward. Mainly just because I wasn't really sure exactly what areas he wanted to improve on the most, which meant that I was left with just going over every advanced concept and tactic I could think of offhand until I found something that he wasn't as familiar with. After I found out that he wasn't very confident at piloting an Assault class vs smaller Lights and Mediums that were moving quickly, everything went great. That was around the time Centron popped in, and we spent the rest of the session doing practice matches to give ManCowFish some good targets to shoot at, and offering advice on ways to better handle specific situations.


If we're going to start having regular Intermediate or Advanced courses, I believe it would be best to have specific concepts or scenarios that are practiced over multiple sessions instead of simply trying to cram it all into one classroom-style interaction. I also agree that it's great to have a second trainer present when possible. It was helpful to have someone to bounce ideas and concepts off of, as well as being able to practice more complex strategies that involve multiple people.