Physics

[Spartacus]

Once upon a blue moon, I helped another modder out there beta-test a certain flavor of Mercs. We got into an interesting discussion of physics, and how this applies (or could apply) to extremely large mechanized vehicles.

Basically, how do you get a (for instance) 95T Warthog that is some ~30 feet tall and doing 95kph to act "right" in an environment that is more physically realistic, as the crytek2 engine's environment is?

And the second question that is immediately apparent is: Is "right" necessarily more realistic?

[death_grin]

Well right is more realistic yes.  However being a game of fiction realism is not the most dominant trait of the mod, nor is this mod a sim.  We would like to make it somewhat realistic yes but were talking about 13 meter tall (at most) up to 100 ton mechanical humanoid machines that are inharently unrealistic in the first place.  However I do assure you realism is often a discussion when we sit down and talk about design issues.  Also gameplay is always at the forfront over realism.  We have started this mod by saying we ARE NOT trying to remake mechwarrior 4 or even mechwarrior 2, nor mechassault (thank god I hate mechassault,)  but a different breed of Battletech that portrays actual combat in the BT universe.  That in itself is alot more realistic then even mech 4 is (where people where the size of ants..)

[xKamikazex]

Also in reference to your question about an assault Mechs traveling at such speed and trying to make then real is something that has been discussed frequently. The option that we chose was one of slowing all the Mechs down significantly to make it seem that these huge machines of war actually felt big and lumbering. Of course, the speeds between Lights to Assault Mechs will be scaled so that there is an advantage for Lighter Mechs in speed.

[thezeus18]

I have a question: how do 'Mechs walk uphill?

[Whiplash]

Jump Jets, 

[Dark Riot]

Does your logic apply to humans also? But implementing it ingame is probably harder then I think.

[Iron Hands]

Once upon a blue moon, I helped another modder out there beta-test a certain flavor of Mercs. We got into an interesting discussion of physics, and how this applies (or could apply) to extremely large mechanized vehicles.

Basically, how do you get a (for instance) 95T Warthog that is some ~30 feet tall and doing 95kph to act "right" in an environment that is more physically realistic, as the crytek2 engine's environment is?

And the second question that is immediately apparent is: Is "right" necessarily more realistic?

Its all relative I think.  Its not that hard for me to imagine at all. A dwarf has muscles that cover his skeleton just like every one who plays for teh Bulls.

When Northrup Grumond makes a new spy plane they build small moddles to test in wind tunnles before they assemble it dont they?

Just imagine if mechs were 7" tall and could sit in the palm of your hand. Imagine them crushing wittle tiny trees 4" tall and weaker than tooth picks. Now apply that to full scale with a few exceptions and your set.

HINT: 10 and 8 pound bowling balls both fall at the exact same rate!

[thezeus18]

Iron Hands: Read the Isaac Asimov essay "Just Right".

Or look up the Square Cube Law.

[Iron Hands]

Yes ok, thank you.  Like has already been stated this isnt a full on sim. Its also still a video game. Entertainment is the science of art, not the art of science.

My point is that if you can imagine it you can do it in video games.

[Spartacus]

Yes ok, thank you.  Like has already been stated this isnt a full on sim. Its also still a video game. Entertainment is the science of art, not the art of science.

My point is that if you can imagine it you can do it in video games.

Yes indeed. I hope my first post wasn't too misleading. I *want* to keep the MW4 Mercs feel, if only because I an used to it, lol. The issue I am raising is, with a new/better more realistic physics engine, are you basically going to have to turn some of the physics effects off for Mechs? Think about a 50T mech running through a swamp - e.g., Wetlands. If you stop, you sink. If you walk, you sink. You can't run. I guess maybe you could jj around, lol. I think this has more to do with the physics of the surface's interaction with the mech, but still.

I'm glad to hear about the speed change...as long as everything is scaled down speedwise, that should help. However, I am guessing that this would move away from the specs used in MW RPG?

Yes, the square-cube law does have an impact here, but it really has an impact on ALL the mechs. We are talking about a reasonably narrow range from 20 to 100T. I am not including tanks, copters, jeeps, BA, etc, and perhaps I should. But nevertheless. So 20 to 100 is within one order of magnitude - they are all going to have pretty much the same impact by physics, with some changes at the extremes.

And the answer to the question of the mech walking uphill is straightforward. Just as you would tilt so that you were more vertically inclined as you walk up the hill, so would a mech...and actually you would be tilted slightly forward, given inertia, etc.

[Iron Hands]

Sparty, theres a more important underlieing issue here. I just so happen to find an articale about it rite as I was typing some thing up. have a look at it then come back to this idea. Hope it will help.
http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,36/topic,1147.0/

[Kit Lightning]

Jump Jets, 

That  I see as a silly comment, sir, thou at a point correct, but not all Mechs has Jump Jets!

Would it not be better to limit the level of degree that a Mech can walk upon, say uptil a degree of 20%, for the Heavy Mechs, the Lighter Mechs has a better distribution of weight corrected in their design as for ex. a Bushwalker , and is able to walk at a degree of uptill 30-40%.

No Mech should be allowed to walk upon a surface that goes against any logic of the real-world physics. Please no stupid faults as MW4 etc.

[KorJax]

Yes that would be cool, and put some use into mechs that would typically be forgotten about unless you on the offchance feel like playing them.

Such as, some smaller/weight balanced mechs might have the "Can climb hills better" attribute that lets them handle slopes, while something like the Atlas can only handle  ground that isn't really hilly, or something like that.

If this is possible of course.

[thezeus18]

Well, certain 'Mechs, regardless of their size, should have the ability to go quadrupedal when climbing a steep slope. Human-like 'Mechs like the Atlas, Centurion, Firestarter, etc.



Other 'Mechs should not have this capability, 'Mechs like the MadCat, Uller, Hollander, etc.

[Solomon]

A Mech going quadrupedal? Sounds kind of strange to me...

I think the stuff with the different degrees would be cool.

But if it comes to physics, I always have the question about braking... If, for example, an 80 tons truck travels down a solid street (good surface for braking) with 60 miles, how long does it take, before the truck stands still? Wouldn't that apply for Mechs too? I know, we are not talking about a sim here, but it should at least take more time for an Atlas to stop, than a smaller mech.