Author Topic: "Smart" Bombs  (Read 4285 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Frostiken

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1926
  • l33tp0intz: +205/-9
Re: "Smart" Bombs
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2010, 06:13:21 AM »
VTOLs would have no business carrying bombs. But I also have my own idea of how VTOLs should work that the devs hate so... :P



Quote
PlanetSide solved this by making it so that bombs can only be dropped when you're flying pretty evenly; diving or climbing will prevent you from dropping bombs.

Hell I don't even remember if it was even possible to do a straight dive in Planetside. But that said, PS also had the advantage of a bombardier with a bombsight who could at least time the release accurately. We don't really have that privilege so I understand why / how dive bombing is a little more crucial for accuracy... it not a little too easy in MWLL.

Unless you had like a downward-facing camera you could switch to to activate, I don't know, air-to-ground (A/G) mode which would enable bombs but disable other weapons...

Offline of a hotdog

  • Bondsman
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • l33tp0intz: +9/-0
  • You smell bad
Re: "Smart" Bombs
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2010, 07:22:43 AM »
I like frostikens diagram of how bombs should work, but I think any carpet bombers should be modeled after the A10 Grand Slam in AIX. The A10 Grand Slam has 3 magazines with 15 bombs each, the bombs are not separate weapons and even if you release the RMB as quickly as you can all of them will drop in like you see in the video. I think the dive bombing thing could be cured by putting the bombs on a timer so that you have to get nice and close you drop them all. I think the way the carpet bombing is set up in AIX is pretty fun but the bombs would need to be a hell of a lot less powerful than in AIX. I also noticed that anything fast seems to be able to dodge the bombs because they drop so slowly and almost fly by themselves, so light mechs would be safe unless you got behind or in front of them (Watch the later part of the video where I do a terrible job trying to hit that weird 8 Wheeled thing).

Video of AIX A10 Grand Slam, watch in HD if you want to see the bombs better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I07BR5qxbzg
Your Fiend,
Rabid_Imperial_Guard

Offline Frostiken

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1926
  • l33tp0intz: +205/-9
Re: "Smart" Bombs
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2010, 07:35:12 AM »
Yeah I somewhat intended that the carpet bombing (DBombs) couldn't be dropped en-masse but had a timer. Wasn't very clear on that, sorry. But you see in the diagram the equal space between the bombs but the chaotic dispersion, that's what I was implying.

I like the AIX A10 carpet bomb (even though that's incredibly retarded on an A-10 :D) but one thing that's tricky about MWLL is that, in Battlefield 2 you respawn right away, equip whatever you wish, jump in a newly spawned tank, off you go. In MWLL it's a little more complicated. Dying is sort of a big deal as it can take you out of the game for several minutes depending on map and what kind of asset you need to bring. Even crippling a mech into the red forces it to repair, again taking several minutes out. DBombs would be fairly hard to balance in regards to doing enough damage without being overpowered, how spread out they get, their splash radius, even altitudes. If they disperse too much you force them to be released very low.

I don't think I really intend any bomb except the PBombs to get the pilot kills. FBombs are clearly to break up groups (and break them up they shall), CBombs are for doing moderate to light damage to a large area (and annihilating BAs), DBombs are more general drop bombs. Whether you use them to carpet bomb or not is up to you, they can just as well be used as a single-drop munition. Aircraft have a VERY high 'BULLSHIT!' factor and curtailing that is somewhat my intention. Aircraft can be just about anywhere, they're fast enough (even the Shiva) that you can't really consider any place truly safe from them, and ammo is a non-issue. They flee back to the airfield and in thirty seconds they've rearmed and back in the action. When you give something like the Shiva the ability to one-shot-kill two Assaults every minute? That's where the 'BULLSHIT!' comes in that just frustrates everyone except the pilot.

The idea is to make them support weapons first and foremost, because ground attack aircraft even in the real world exist ENTIRELY to support ground units. An F-15 does not load up with bombs and then go shoot what he wants. He loiters in an area for hours, hitting tankers, until someone calls for help.

DBombs can do some good damage but are fairly imprecise and can't be spammed to guarantee a kill. CBombs do lots of damage to an area but the damage isn't extreme enough to net you kills. It'd basically be the equivalent of an MRM-20 striking every target. Altitude burst ensures you can't drop it 5 feet above an Atlas so that 80 bomblets hit it all at once.

One important thing to keep in mind is that if there's any potential for abuse with a weapon, people will find it and abuse the shit out of it.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2010, 07:55:54 AM by Frostiken »

Offline CHH Aurailius

  • Technical Designer
  • MWLL Developer
  • MechWarrior
  • *
  • Posts: 343
  • l33tp0intz: +33/-0
Re: "Smart" Bombs
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2010, 07:45:34 AM »

Only thing I can't puzzle out is how to stop a dude from doing a dive-bomb with DBombs and drop them all, one-by-one, above a mech for an epic-kill-of-what-the-fapp-ness.
PlanetSide solved this by making it so that bombs can only be dropped when you're flying pretty evenly; diving or climbing will prevent you from dropping bombs.
Thanks for the idea, we might discuss that among ourselves a bit to see if its possible/feasable.  I think that would work nicely for carpet bombing (and maybe other bombs too...).

I may make proof of concepts based on the ideas in this thread, i like some of them.  Carpet bombs and Cluster bombs in particular.  I want saturation weapons for aerospace that do light-moderate damage to an area at once.

Offline (TLL)Sky_walker

  • Living Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 2638
  • l33tp0intz: +66/-1
  • Close Range Attack Forces
    • MWLL Wiki
Re: "Smart" Bombs
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2010, 08:24:43 AM »
Awesome! :)
MWLL Wiki Newsletter: Wiki suffers from spammers and lack of activity - change it now, jump in and contribute with something useful! :D


Proud to be C.R.A.P. inspiration # MWLL Wiki Admin # MWLL Alpha Tester # Dev Team # MWLL Defense Force Mercenary - Battlemech Barracks

Offline [IPA] Bravo Cadett

  • Lance Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 384
  • l33tp0intz: +4/-0
    • Dream Team Leipzig
Re: "Smart" Bombs
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2010, 12:05:04 PM »
for the bombs: just use SRM packs without the rocket engien, so you shoot and it just drops... perfect if you pack 4 or 6 SRM 6 packs on an aero and bomb the shit out of some LRM camper ... maybe combine that with a lock mode if the pilot dive bomb ... (more risk more reward)

maybe at a bomb timer so the pilot have to fly low if he want to hit something... or the bombs just blow midair with no effect on the ground targets ...

Offline aTolyK

  • Lance Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 433
  • l33tp0intz: +13/-0
  • Prepare to be confused
Re: "Smart" Bombs
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2010, 07:50:31 PM »
Compare and contrast the images for possible issues  ;)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Are we here yet?

Dwarf Fortress: The weak shall be culled, so the strong can have nicer socks.

I killed stuff with Sparrowhawks in 0.3.2

Offline =KoS= Saber15

  • Alphatester
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2114
  • l33tp0intz: +181/-2
  • RIP AND TEAR
Re: "Smart" Bombs
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2010, 07:56:20 PM »
Hell I don't even remember if it was even possible to do a straight dive in Planetside. But that said, PS also had the advantage of a bombardier with a bombsight who could at least time the release accurately. We don't really have that privilege so I understand why / how dive bombing is a little more crucial for accuracy... it not a little too easy in MWLL.
Planetside aircraft had a max pitch of like 30 or 45 degrees, but any more than about 10 degrees would prevent bombs from being dropped by Liberator/Vulture bombers.
"Concentrate on the moment, each moment is its own reality. It has a particular thisness. You can't predict, but you can explain. Or try. If you are observant, and lucky, you can say, this is why this is happening! It's very interesting!"