Summoner: ...what

[Comradejim]

Played for a few hours today, never once saw this mech, starting to think its a myth.

[Defender]

So, because there have been some inquiries and concerns raised in this thread as to the thought process behind this model I'd like to explain my stance since I actually modeled it and will explain through illustration as I feel this is easily digestible and quite simple to understand. It will give you an idea as to the thought process in my mind as I sit there and struggle with the vast majority of "Canon Designs".

This is the TRO Image posted (Aka: The Real Deal)


This is my final High Poly Model (Aka: The Realer Real Deal)


Now, since I'm a nice guy, I'm going to say this as nice as possible. If you don't like my decisions, my rationale or the reasons I've done what I've done and spent the time to make what I've made, you can do what I tell everyone who doesn't like what I do to do. Do it better yourself, or, STFU and have a seat over there in the corner and enjoy what you have.

[Bill]

Well I'm just glad everyone here behaves like adults.

[Spanish Inquisition]

Huh. It might not look exactly like the TRO Summoner we all know and love, but I think it looks great and in line with the other mechs and their deviations from the TRO due to artistic license.

The limited downwards torso pitch is really killer, especially when BA are around. A notable weakness for them to exploit, which I feel, is a good thing.

[Davidian]

Looks pretty badass to me. Definitely different, lots of small changes. But not bad.
/approve

[Lucentdragon]

Gonna be honest here,despite my dogged love of the "real deal" canon stuff.I like the new model you did better.This model captures enough of the other thor/summoner to be easily recognized and it really does seem more....well...real....and functional.Looks like it's gonna be a blast to pilot,altho I fear the torso pitch issue because I already despise those little BA buggers as it is lol.Anyways,good job! and thank you!

[DFDelta]

I like the model. Looks great, and I don't really care for the small deviations from the TRO.

The new design for the ballistics arm is great, too. I can't really stand those tiny arms that so many clan mechs have in the TRO (Dasher and Stormcrow for example)

[HAARP]

Added pic to first post.

[7.[WD]Ragor]

"...right arm... bla... look always all the same... bla... 2+2=3... bla... omni...  bla...  mommy?..."

>>>>>>>>>>

I honestly don't get the point why Omni-parts are supposed to look the same. The design/look is 100% irrelevant.

All what matters is the functionality.

Omni means that it can be exchanged/swapped easily, more or less 'plug and play'.

-> IMO 'Omni-stuff' is only defined and standardized mechanics.

-> The connecting bolts/holes/screw/whatever to the shoulder/pod and the position for powerlines/ammobelts/myomer are the same from Omni-part to Omni-part. But the design of the casing doesn't matter at all.

-> An Omni-arm manufactured 3058 may look totally different than a 3064 manufactured one. But they can be swapped without any issues since the internals are the same.


Regarding the actual example of the Thor VS Loki arm:

I can't help myself, the arm itself is the same, just different in details (btw: do both mechs have the same amount of armor on their arm? Oh, the additional armor doesn't change the look of it. Got it. ).
Only the pod is different. But its Omni. Just another one mounted.

And yes, IMOthe new arm looks better.

[~SJ~ Atlessa]

[stupid question]
What exactly does "TRO" mean?
I keep thinking "Tropical Sector"...
been playing Metroid Fusion A LOT these days xD
[/stupid question]

[nordwars]

If the above post from Defender is in fact the in game model, I think it looks good. I also agree with his modelling plan analysis. I would also be pissed if everyone said it was shit. That stuff takes ages (I'm trying to model in 3DS Max at the moment and its laborious to the max).

Sure he could have been a bit more polite, but the words make sense, and you'll get over it.

Now I need to go see it in game.

Of course, if the model doesn't work (pivot wise) then thats a problem, but it sounds like that is being addressed.

[Defender]

[stupid question]
What exactly does "TRO" mean?
I keep thinking "Tropical Sector"...
been playing Metroid Fusion A LOT these days xD
[/stupid question]

Technical Readout

[Humbug]

So, because there have been some inquiries and concerns raised in this thread as to the thought process behind this model I'd like to explain my stance since I actually modeled it and will explain through illustration as I feel this is easily digestible and quite simple to understand. It will give you an idea as to the thought process in my mind as I sit there and struggle with the vast majority of "Canon Designs".

Now, since I'm a nice guy, I'm going to say this as nice as possible. If you don't like my decisions, my rationale or the reasons I've done what I've done and spent the time to make what I've made, you can do what I tell everyone who doesn't like what I do to do. Do it better yourself, or, STFU and have a seat over there in the corner and enjoy what you have.

While I do appreciate the work put in to make that model and think that there's certainly nothing wrong with the model itself I just don't think the MWLL version looks much like a Summoner anymore. That image is easy to pick apart for faults but there are slightly less 2D images of it online. Like this for example:



I think my biggest beef with the MWLL version is the cockpit, the rocket pod and the legs that are too close together making it look a lot less intimidating. The Summoner is one of my favorite mechs so I hope you understand where I'm coming from. The old "do it yourself or stfu" isn't really a valid argument since if we had to do something better ourselves before we could give criticism (the constructive kind) then few things in our world would ever improve.

Please don't take any criticism as an attack on you as a person. It's easy to read hostility into simple text without any facial expressions or tone of voice to guide you but I don't think most of the people here mean any harm really. They're just giving input on a subject that is dear to them.

Cheers!

[Davidian]

Even that version of the Summoner (MW3 version, btw (Humbug's post)) deviates from the TRO Summoner. The cockpit itself is wholly different: bars are vertical only and don't intersect the pilot's vision, entire cockpit seems dipped forward, and the shape is boxy, not rounded out like TRO version. Missile pod has 15 slots, TRO has 7 slots. Also arms are slightly different.

[(TLL) Heretic]

Added pic to first post.

Sheesh Haarp!  Just drop it man....

Defender just gave you the honour of a schooling in why the TRO Summoner is garbage for a fully working 3D model, illustrated with a diagram pointing out each of the "challenges" the original 2D artwork had created; and instead of saying "Thanks for the masterclass, I now understand the difficulties of translating poorly draw 2D Concepts into working 3D models now a bit better....but you could have done X, Y & Z to solve problems A, B & C" all you do is post up a picture of the MWLL Thor in Sandbox......that's pretty weak right there mate.

Did you just play for like an hour, ignore all the new bells and whistles and massive improvements then as soon as you built a Thor you thought "Oh No, up with this I will not Put!".  When you initially posted this thread thought "games been out 10minutes, what's his beef?" but was still too ill to handle he typing.


My opnion, it's a Summoner and it works, legs are the same as the Loki's as per the TRO, body looks like the TRO enough without it's problems...good enough, wil never be a favorite machine for me but that's just personal choice, 2 crits I could make are that the shovel-hand on the lower left arm could loose ~0.25-0.5m in length (is just a little too protruding for my tastes), and secondly I'd add a ball join at the waist...doesn't solve the hip-sway & general movement problems given by the TRO but it would help torso mobility greatly....and is easily acceptable to the onlooker as an armoured gyro-mount, as we see many 'mechs with ball-joint-stomachs....Defender's got past this problem by pulling the low-slung cummerbund on the TRO up maybe 0.5m, and that's 100% acceptable IMO as it's closer to the TRO than the only other solution I can think of.

What I'm trying to say is, unless you constructively give crits you're just going to get folks backs up, and if you really can't live with a model then the only way to get things changed would be to do better yourself and post it up as a suggestion (doesn't have to be pretty or even 3D, just a hand sketched front, top and side example of how you see the legs, hips and waist areas interacting better than what is on offer would be enough to inspire change if it's valid and workable).