Mech pricing

[Frostiken]

This was originally going to be an I&S thread, but I've trolled that up enough as of late, so I'll pee in this forum for a little bit

So! Am I the only one who feels that the 'automatic' mech pricing just isn't working?

I'll take two examples - the Bushwacker Prime and the Hellbringer Prime.

The BSW-X1 is one of the more comedic mechs in the game, carrying an impressively mediocre loadout. It's true to the CBT Prime and for that I'm grateful, but it seriously should be dropped in price to reflect the loadout. I see no reason, actually, why it shouldn't be available as a mech available with CDT/PVT, or maybe WR/SGT pay - after all, it was even the mech you started the MW3 campaign in Dropping the price of the less efficient and underused designs would be a nice way to let new players get something with a bit of armour on them (which would mostly be Primes - this wouldn't actually be a bad thing really. The Nova Cat Prime should cost less than the 'boat' variants, a bit of a discount for taking something a bit less efficient).

The Hellbringer Prime is sort of on the total opposite end of the spectrum. It's practically one of the priciest mechs in the game, at 120k CBills. For comparison, the CUAC20 Hellbringer is 20k CBills cheaper. I actually have to keep looking up what the Prime has on it because I've never seen anyone use it in-game. 2x CERPPCs, 3x CERMBLs, 1x CSSRM6, and 2x token MGUN. It's not lacking in firepower, but... it's a loadout that pretty much requires you to use 4 weapon groups, with a pricetag that would suggest it can karate chop a mountain in half. It's in no way 20k cbills better than the CUAC20 variant, or even the CLBX20 variant before it. So why's it cost so god damn much?

Lowering the price of mechs that require ridiculous weapon grouping, have schizophrenic loadouts (where you have something idiotic like 2x SPLs, 1x LRM-10, 2x MGun, 1x AC-10, 1x LBL that is a complete pain in the ass to manage all the weapons for), and basically are non-boats would be nice. Mechs that concentrate all their weaponry into the same weapons (dual UAC20s, 3x RAC5s) are good because they allow you to triple your output under completely identical circumstances. Mixing large lasers and AC-10s means you have to use one or the other, since you have to lead the AC-10 you can't use the LBL at the same time. Pricing the schizophrenic and less-used loadouts as 'on sale' (basically) could alleviate some of the stompage issues we're having. And simply put, your computerized system can't tell the difference between good loadouts and bad.

[Cosmitz]

I fully agree with this. The train of though of allowing schitzo builds earlier or cheaper would make for a pretty fun gameplay gimmick. Those that can focus better on using those variants would be allowed to use better mechs earlier, while those that want the boat mentality of two weapongroups max would have to wait a bit until reaching them and work harder for them.

I cannot agree with this more. +karma

[zephoid]

i agree. variants should be based on there component cost, but adjusted for damage/s output and burst potential. bushy prime is a good example along with some of the thantos and thor variants. they are very under used (thor maybe not because its new) and deserve a bit of a viability boost. cost is the best way to do this and not have all the people complaing about breaking cannon if you give m a bit more armor (therefore putting them overweight).

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

I used to use that 032. Too expensive now.

[darktimes]

I didn't even know that the prizes were computer generated. ouch, seriously. please, please have a look at the mechs and the loadouts and set the prizes by HAND. this would also clean up the ridiculous detailed credit tags. 45166 creds isn't very.. "flyby and know".  while 45000 is.
it gets worse with heavier mechs, as the numbers increase.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

While some variants could definitely benefit from hand-set prices, as far as I know the prices are a function of chassis cost + cost per weapon + cost of equipment.

[Mordegar]

I have to agree.

The bushwacker prime is the best example for a Mech with a (for MWLL terms) light mech loadout in a medium mech, missing the punch or the ammo capabilitys for longer periods of sustained fire.
The overheating uac10 alone is a beast most players aren't willing to tame for that price, when you can already buy the uziel prime or it's variants at the same rank.

[Cosmitz]

Say you put two AC20's on a Medium chassis fast chassis. Cheap right? Extremely efficient? Definitely.

Price needs to also be adjusted by efficiency and ease in use.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

It's a pity we don't have a Hunchback IIC, instead we have that weird bastard Loki which is basically a Hunchback IIC, plus 36kph, plus an ssrm6, plus some extra armour.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

Say you put two AC20's on a Medium chassis fast chassis. Cheap right? Extremely efficient? Definitely.

Price needs to also be adjusted by efficiency and ease in use.

No No No. This is extremely subjective to your own personal viewpoint. What you find easy to use another will not.

Price of mechs is and should be determined only via Chassis+weapon and ammo cost.

[Cosmitz]

So if you have to choose between managing 5 weapon groups of mixed Machineguns/Flamers/LRM/AC5/LBL or 4 LBL and say the token 2 machineguns for the same price, you would choose to do the first?

People like roles, or if they want to mix it up, have a bit of longrange/brawler going on with a XPL/LRM, so they'll always choose the most focused design that fits their need. You wont pickup that weird build that has you buttonmashing in the middle of combat just to be able to fire what weapons you want simply because in the end, it's all about damage with type as a secondary.

Long story short, i'm not debating between lasers/ballistics/missiles, but between focused vs unfocused designs, the unfocused ones being the ones that are harder to use by general consensus due to more micro. Mastering an unfocused build might make you even a battle with a mech about the same in cost, but mastering it takes time and practice. So why not give incentive to people to master those builds by making them cheaper.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

So if you have to choose between managing 5 weapon groups of mixed Machineguns/Flamers/LRM/AC5/LBL or 4 LBL and say the token 2 machineguns for the same price, you would choose to do the first?

People like roles, or if they want to mix it up, have a bit of longrange/brawler going on with a XPL/LRM, so they'll always choose the most focused design that fits their need. You wont pickup that weird build that has you buttonmashing in the middle of combat just to be able to fire what weapons you want simply because in the end, it's all about damage with type as a secondary.

Long story short, i'm not debating between lasers/ballistics/missiles, but between focused vs unfocused designs, the unfocused ones being the ones that are harder to use by general consensus due to more micro. Mastering an unfocused build might make you even a battle with a mech about the same in cost, but mastering it takes time and practice. So why not give incentive to people to master those builds by making them cheaper.

Thing is your loadout examples are the about 40tons of chassis weight difference.

Mixed variants are a good thing. Not having enough hotkeys for the weapon group could be an issue, but that is no excuse to adjust the price in some kind of subjective madness.

[(TLL)Siilk]

I didn't even know that the prizes were computer generated. ouch, seriously. please, please have a look at the mechs and the loadouts and set the prizes by HAND. this would also clean up the ridiculous detailed credit tags. 45166 creds isn't very.. "flyby and know".  while 45000 is.
it gets worse with heavier mechs, as the numbers increase.

 Automatic pricing is in because it would be used by mechlab when it would be completed. So, auto pricing system must be costnatly tested ingame and tweaked to work perfectly or mechlab balance would be compromised.

[darktimes]

he has a point with dedicated and Mixed variants. the mixed are often pricier and underarmed in the roles other variants are dedicated in.

well, there are exceptions, like the vulture prime, which is a monster compared to the other variants, (nobody expects 4 PulseLasers when they see missiles) so it all boils down to pilot skill, and player preferences.

what I think is that the AC weapons need a prize increase. they've gotten considerably more damaging. (lore says 2 ppc = 1 AC20 damage wise, this wasn't the case earlier.)

[~SJ~ Wolf]

he has a point with dedicated and Mixed variants. the mixed are often pricier and underarmed in the roles other variants are dedicated in.

well, there are exceptions, like the vulture prime, which is a monster compared to the other variants, (nobody expects 4 PulseLasers when they see missiles) so it all boils down to pilot skill, and player preferences.

what I think is that the AC weapons need a prize increase. they've gotten considerably more damaging. (lore says 2 ppc = 1 AC20 damage wise, this wasn't the case earlier.)

Underarmed is a side effect of the choices made in the loadout. Just like in your example of the Mad Dog where a mixed loadout can work. Just remember when making a suggestion to increase prices that it makes Everything that uses that weapon more expensive. So while one chassis may seem to need to cost 4-5k more that may be out of the question for another using that weapon.