Author Topic: Mech pricing  (Read 591 times)

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Offline ~SJ~ Xarg Talasko

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Re: Mech pricing
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2011, 02:17:21 PM »
I'd like to see how that variant fared with the pulses replace with beam lasers.


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Offline (TLL)CapperDeluxe

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Re: Mech pricing
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2011, 02:29:17 PM »
You really can't compare UAC20 to ERPPC, they're in completely different spectrums of weaponry usages and tactics should change accordingly.  Taking the UAC20 Loki means you are forced to close within about 300 meters of a target, and with their fairly thin armor you're not going to last long unless you're only fighting medium and lights (assuming the mediums don't also have AC/LB20).

The twin ERPPC on the other hand means the Loki can run around at long range and stay out of the general brawl, where its speed and electronics help it out more than it would in a brawl.  I think where the misconception lies is that most people tend to lean towards close range encounters because most maps lend toward that very much so. However you're not nearly as likely to find an UAC20 mech driving around on Palisades because its much harder to close distance before getting torn to shred by LRM and sniper support.

Different maps, different mechs, different tactics.
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Offline ~SJ~ Xarg Talasko

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Re: Mech pricing
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2011, 02:36:45 PM »
Oh I understand the difference in the playstyles, and that the Loki Prime cost comes at least partly from the electronics, but let me ask you this.

Loki prime, longest range weapons are 2xmgun, and 2x cerppc, 107k (032) vs novacat a 102k, and novacat c 118k. The firepower differences are staggering, but the prices were mental. I know they're different now, but the Loki Prime at 120k is still clocking in at mid-late Novacat price range, a chassis that has less speed, but WAY more guns and WAY WAY more armour. Are the electronics packages really that expensive? Why are the Ravens so (relatively) cheap when they have much better equipment packages?


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Offline Mekabuser=12thVR=

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Re: Mech pricing
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2011, 03:28:00 PM »
I agree with OP with the concept of a boating premium. I had kinda assumed this was the direction they would go with the mechlab. Mixed loadouts  should be cheaper. ANy multiple grouping of a weapon , be it MG should have a boating penalty. THis could of course be a sliding scale with lets say mg the cheapest and cerppc the most expensive.

Offline Frostiken

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Re: Mech pricing
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2011, 08:12:26 PM »
At the same time, why not intentionally design some variants to be much cheaper due to odd weapon choice, being undertonnage, etc.

Example:

Warhammer P(oop):

1x SRM-6 (rack)
1x AC10 (L arm)
1x LBX5 (R arm)
2x MPL (nipples)
     GECM
     0 HS
     2 Ammo

Catapult P:
2x LRM-10 (racks)
2x MBL (nose)
2x SXPL (sides)
     BAP
     2 HS
     2 Ammo

Mad Dog P:
1x CSRM-6 (l torso)
1x CATM-3 (r torso)
2x CSPL (arms)
2x CERSBL (arms)
     ECM
     0 DHS
     2 Ammo

Offline Waysted

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Re: Mech pricing
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2011, 09:41:19 PM »
You really can't compare UAC20 to ERPPC, they're in completely different spectrums of weaponry usages and tactics should change accordingly.  Taking the UAC20 Loki means you are forced to close within about 300 meters of a target, and with their fairly thin armor you're not going to last long unless you're only fighting medium and lights (assuming the mediums don't also have AC/LB20).

The twin ERPPC on the other hand means the Loki can run around at long range and stay out of the general brawl, where its speed and electronics help it out more than it would in a brawl.  I think where the misconception lies is that most people tend to lean towards close range encounters because most maps lend toward that very much so. However you're not nearly as likely to find an UAC20 mech driving around on Palisades because its much harder to close distance before getting torn to shred by LRM and sniper support.

Different maps, different mechs, different tactics.

If you're unable to get an Loki into 400m range (350 + a lil extra you can hit out to), then it's your own fault.  The fact of the matter is that strictly Loki Prime vs. Loki E(?), the pricing scheme seems a little strange.  Loki Prime is annoying and can put out some damage over a period of time.  The Loki E on the other hand is down right terrifyingg and can put out an amazing amount of damage in a short period of time, sure it has a shorter engagement range, but really between 20-30k cheaper than the prime?

Frost interesting idea, but more variants people won't use?  Assuming those were priced in a medium range, I'd rather have a SCat C every day of the week.

Offline sleet01

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Re: Mech pricing
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2011, 10:17:17 PM »
I think it's good that we're running into this issue now, as opposed to when the MechLab is in.  One of the problems (I imagine) with pricing 'mech components is that the CBT prices were partly based on the setting: advanced electronics, including systems like C3 which were appearing in real military units already at the time they were introduced to BT, were overpriced due to their supposed scarcity in the fiction.  Some highly effective weapons or components could no longer be constructed due to the loss of some key component's factories in the fiction, leading to inflation of that specific price, while other equally effective weapons were cheap because they were still widely made.  So adjusting MWLL component prices based on in-game efficacy makes a lot of sense to me.  This is one place where I think CBT should be completely tossed aside.

I would suggest that weapons, at least, should be priced based on a variety of factors, such as range, ammo, flight time, DPS, impediments to use (lock-on, overheating, minimum range) and so on, but weighted heavily towards DPS and range adjustment.  The cost of the base chassis can be computed from its own components, but the final cost should be adjusted based on the total efficiency (say, by multiplying by a factor for each component that makes all the weapons or all the equipment function better, such as double heatsinks).  There can be a subtractor or divisor applied to the weapon package for each separate range envelope over 2 (causing multiple weapon groups), say, or factors for MASC and for DHS could be included last since they enhance both threat range and overall DPS output.  I think with some thought the automatic pricing system can be made to work.

The missing piece, though, is reporting and tweaking.  The players don't really have any way of directly adjusting the prices of configurations, or of providing concise feedback to the devs on possible adjustments.  Without knowing the details of how different components are priced it's hard to even begin to make suggestions, except things like "Mech X Alt Config B is totally broken!" or "I can't afford Mech Y Prime even though the cheaper Alt Config C is much better."  Which is not to say that these aren't constructive, but I feel like we could do more to help the devs tweak the prices if we knew more about how the prices are determined right now.