Demolisher LBX20's > All (except shiva)

[Redvan]

to keep OP tank discussion here:

I've noticed basically all the tanks have excessive armor given their abilities.

1.  They are smaller, thus can cover easier/harder to see

2.  They have 360degree turret movement.  They can easily switch sides to the mech to cover their damaged parts.  Whereas a mech, if getting damaged in the torso, will always be pointed at the enemy (unless you're not planning on shooting at them).

[Askis]

AFAIK GECM and Passive Radar doesn't stack. Going into passive simply disables GECM's effect (as passive radar is the same thing as GECM, just with shorter radar range as a disadvantage).

Just tested it out, GECM and passive do stack, although it's not the total radar invisibility I though it was, it just reduces the range that someone can be detected at down to 250m (without BAP/BHP) instead of 500m.

Not sure if this is intentional or not, as it does give assets with GECM a reason to to passive.

[sleet01]

...

They still have their weaknesses. They have soft spots and they handle like a.....errrr.....tank.

...

I'm sure this will get tiresome, but I just want to point out (again) that tanks in Crysis / MWLL handle very little like tanks.  Tanks today are fast and relatively agile, while carrying sophisticated targeting and stabilization gear.  They certainly handle better than any of the tracked assets in MWLL: acceleration, steering, braking, and gun stabilization are *far* inferior to M1A2s in action.  I won't even deal with the fact that the Army was exploring a company- or platoon-level C3/TAG-style system that would allow one tank to *automatically* target and fire on a contact ranged by a second friendly tank, or to use remote targeting info to engage enemies *indirectly* from several miles away, like artillery, when I left in 2001.  I'll leave out the fact that most modern MBTs only need to put a foot or two of their profile out in the open to engage with their main gun or coax - depressable by about 10 degrees in most cases - and can stay hull-down while the TC engages vehicles with the cupola heavy MG.  But armor in MWLL doesn't handle like tanks, it handles like boats.  If people think a Demolisher is overpowered, just think of a Demolisher that can hit you indirectly with two AC20 rounds from the other side of a map thanks to a TAGging BA, or sit on the backside of a low hill with just its barrel visible and hit you with gauss rounds from 4 km away, or automatically lock onto you and hit the same spot on your torso three shots in a row as it traverses a series of dunes at 80kph.

[megab0t_5]

When I play MW:LL I am usually so stoned that the mouse starts looking edible and I often type random gibberish about welsh corgis into main chat.

If the aiming and handling of the vehicles was more responsive, I'd be hugging the bottom of the score all match!

[Overon]

There is already a "Jesus Tank" thread on the durability of tanks:
http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/topic,11628.135.html

[xDeityx]

When I play MW:LL I am usually so stoned that the mouse starts looking edible and I often type random gibberish about welsh corgis into main chat.

If the aiming and handling of the vehicles was more responsive, I'd be hugging the bottom of the score all match!

I knew there was a reason we got along well.

[(TLL) Heretic]

*SNIP*
Of course, the best most logical counter to tanks would be air assets, namely VTOL craft acting as gunship platforms. Sadly at the current moment in my eyes the air portion of the game is rather weakly developed. Only one choice of VTOL that is very very weak, and the only air units worth anything would be sulla's with fbombs that have very floaty controls (when trying to land or make realistic passes at least).

I'm going to cry BS on this statement Korjax, I spend 80% of my time as dedicated AA tanker (and usually end up in a podium place on the leaderboard eunning AA, so I flatter myself that I can lead my shots adequately) and I can tell you, your view of VTOLs simply isn't true.

Currently I find myself killing Sullas about x3 times faster than a HawkMoth *Sulla is a 45ton flying tank, VTOL is a 35ton paper tiger in the BTU* and that's just ridiculous (especially give the starting AA options, a Partisan Prime can take forever to down a Hawkmoth).

And while I haven't really shot down many Shivas in 0.4 to feel confident in making statements about them (they're pretty rare and folks stop using ASF after I've shot their Sulla down, so I rarely get to see them) my gut tells me that I'd still have an easier time vs the armour of a 80ton ASG than against a MWLL "Super-HawkMoth".

VTOLs seem to have got a massive armour increase *you guys with the XML stats can tell me for sure* or are currently immune from the multipliers that ASF suffer with the light& medium caliber autocannons.  Maybe your refering to Lasers/CERPPCs & Gauss from 'mechs vs VTOLs, and although I haven't done this at all in 0.4 if it's anything like 0.3 armour levels (and I think the VTOL has had an armour buff in most versions) then 6Gauss to the Body are required (3 to a Side torso) making VTOLs more similar to flying mediums/heavies than flying lights.

On the Demo, TC Thunderrift is an aweful map to get any real feedback on, the bases are all raised and walled, so your looking at extreme closeup combat (where the Demo is meant to be King), so it's a bit early to cry OP on the Demo....Morrigu, UAC Loki (actually UAC20s and AC20s in general)  & HawkMoth are more obviously OP than the Inner Spheres ultimate assault tank IMO.

[(TLL)KitLightning]

The Demolisher is sadly overcharged in MWLL compared to CBT values

Demolisher Prime (CBT/MWLL 2x Autocannon/20)
CBT Value 2,151,000 C-bills
MWLL Value 71,999 C-bills

Awesome Prime (CBT 3xPPCs, 1xSBL / MWLL 3 ERPPC, 1 ERLBL)
CBT 6,598,170 C-bills
MWLL 103,898 C-bills

What goes for it being overpower is ridiculous. It has to many drawbacks towards it compared to bipedal assets in the same price range. Not to say that all tanks will suffer from adjacent component damage once one component is below 60%, no 'Mech suffer that.

[KorJax]

*SNIP*
Of course, the best most logical counter to tanks would be air assets, namely VTOL craft acting as gunship platforms. Sadly at the current moment in my eyes the air portion of the game is rather weakly developed. Only one choice of VTOL that is very very weak, and the only air units worth anything would be sulla's with fbombs that have very floaty controls (when trying to land or make realistic passes at least).

I'm going to cry BS on this statement Korjax, I spend 80% of my time as dedicated AA tanker (and usually end up in a podium place on the leaderboard eunning AA, so I flatter myself that I can lead my shots adequately) and I can tell you, your view of VTOLs simply isn't true.

Currently I find myself killing Sullas about x3 times faster than a HawkMoth *Sulla is a 45ton flying tank, VTOL is a 35ton paper tiger in the BTU* and that's just ridiculous (especially give the starting AA options, a Partisan Prime can take forever to down a Hawkmoth).

And while I haven't really shot down many Shivas in 0.4 to feel confident in making statements about them (they're pretty rare and folks stop using ASF after I've shot their Sulla down, so I rarely get to see them) my gut tells me that I'd still have an easier time vs the armour of a 80ton ASG than against a MWLL "Super-HawkMoth".

VTOLs seem to have got a massive armour increase *you guys with the XML stats can tell me for sure* or are currently immune from the multipliers that ASF suffer with the light& medium caliber autocannons.  Maybe your refering to Lasers/CERPPCs & Gauss from 'mechs vs VTOLs, and although I haven't done this at all in 0.4 if it's anything like 0.3 armour levels (and I think the VTOL has had an armour buff in most versions) then 6Gauss to the Body are required (3 to a Side torso) making VTOLs more similar to flying mediums/heavies than flying lights.

On the Demo, TC Thunderrift is an aweful map to get any real feedback on, the bases are all raised and walled, so your looking at extreme closeup combat (where the Demo is meant to be King), so it's a bit early to cry OP on the Demo....Morrigu, UAC Loki (actually UAC20s and AC20s in general)  & HawkMoth are more obviously OP than the Inner Spheres ultimate assault tank IMO.

Just because VTOL's have more armor than Sulla's doesn't make them exceptionally good units. The only one worth salt is the LRM varient, because it's the only one that you can really use with the terrible control sceme vtols have and deal good damage (the narc becons are great too).

All of the other varients are virtually useless damage wise and control wise to be used.

Seriously? Two LBX5's as the only attack method? That can just barely kill battlearmor, let alone deal decent damage to a tank or even light mech.

And the Light Gauss? Sure it has 1200m range but good luck using that to it's fullest with the controls they have. And not to mention the things do absolutely terrible damage for the refire rate they have (it's a good weapon used in conjunction with others, like for the Uziel, just not by themselves).

If this is how VTOL's are in the battletech universe then it's a wonder why they even make them considering their are about as effective as throwing a rock at a tank IRL.

[xInVicTuSx]

The Demolisher is sadly overcharged in MWLL compared to CBT values

Demolisher Prime (CBT/MWLL 2x Autocannon/20)
CBT Value 2,151,000 C-bills
MWLL Value 71,999 C-bills

Awesome Prime (CBT 3xPPCs, 1xSBL / MWLL 3 ERPPC, 1 ERLBL)
CBT 6,598,170 C-bills
MWLL 103,898 C-bills

What goes for it being overpower is ridiculous. It has to many drawbacks towards it compared to bipedal assets in the same price range. Not to say that all tanks will suffer from adjacent component damage once one component is below 60%, no 'Mech suffer that.

 

If we went by that an Osiris would cost as much as a Warhammer does now and the Thanatos would cost 3 times as much as an Awesome.

[Haunted]

The Demolisher is sadly overcharged in MWLL compared to CBT values

Demolisher Prime (CBT/MWLL 2x Autocannon/20)
CBT Value 2,151,000 C-bills
MWLL Value 71,999 C-bills

Awesome Prime (CBT 3xPPCs, 1xSBL / MWLL 3 ERPPC, 1 ERLBL)
CBT 6,598,170 C-bills
MWLL 103,898 C-bills

well.... thats because tanks in  CBT suck balls.... one critical hit and they do go booom.... (more or less). They have a serious survival problem in CBT. We don't need that in MWLL...

[zombat]

I've found the Heavy Laser Puma is great for raping tanks.

Tanks are still about as mobile as a brick so its not that difficult to keep on a demo's flanks with it, especially if you're both in passive

[dCK-Ad_Hominem]

I recommend using the MRM Pult against demos. I have plenty of success using that thing.