Armour analysis

[Frostiken]

Atlas:                           82,500   304       13,361      47
Mk2:                            66,001    250       8,811       37
Awesome:                   65,999    240      10,588      30
Mauler:                        62,999    206      10,084      27
Warhammer:               59,998    217       8,702       34
Timberwolf:                  61,500   230       8,182       36
Summoner:                  48,788   182       6,870        27
Thanatos:                    50,999   208       8,067        31
Novacat:                      58,502   216       9,328        35
Mad Dog:                     44,999   163       7,059        23
Hellbringer:                  46,910   128       6,555        17
Catapult:                     46,500    160       7,311       24
Bushwacker:                46,501   161       6,641       26
Shadow Cat:                36,000   134       5,546       20
Hollander II:                 31,498   108       4,790       15
Uziel:                            42,985   128       6,050       19
 
Strongest to weakest:
CBT totals            MWLL totals       CBT CTs               MWLL CTs     

Atlas                     Atlas                  Atlas                    Atlas           
Mk2                       Mk2                   Mk2                      Awesome
Awesome              Awesome          Timberwolf           Mauler
Timberwolf            Mauler               Novacat               Novacat
Warhammer          Timberwolf         Warhammer        Mk2
Novacat                 Warhammer      Thanatos             Warhammer
Thanatos               Novacat             Awesome            Timberwolf
Mauler                   Thanatos           Mauler                 Thanatos
Summoner             Summoner         Summoner          Catapult
Mad Dog                Hellbringer         Bushwacker        Mad Dog
Bushwacker           Buswacker         Catapult             Summoner
Catapult                Catapult             Mad Dog             Bushwacker
Shadowcat            Mad Dog             Shadowcat         Hellbringer
Hellbringer             Uziel                   Uziel                   Uziel
Uziel                       Shadowcat         Hellbringer         Shadowcat
Hollander II            Hollander II        Hollander II       Hollander II

OBSERVATIONS:

The Hellbringer has way too much armour.

The Timberwolf, Mk2, and Summoner all have equipment racks. This racks require them to spread armour out even more, thus leaving them woefully unprotected. The difference between a Timberwolf's nerfed torso armour and an Awesome is comparable to a Bushwacker vs. a Hollander II. These three mechs need to have this improved.

The Warhammer kicks ass.

How did the Catapult end up harder to kill than a Bushwacker, which unarguably needs the protection more?

Mauler?

[Stahlseele]

How do you figure? O.o
Has that been stated anywhere? o.O

[Toth]

No it has not been stated, nor is it true. We are relatively close to CBT however. Just ordering them like that is not as telling as comparing percentages.

[Stahlseele]

If the Armor and Damage values were like in CBT, MG's and small(pulse)lasers would have Assault mechs running . .

[Frostiken]

No it has not been stated, nor is it true. We are relatively close to CBT however. Just ordering them like that is not as telling as comparing percentages.

20%. That's how much harder to kill an Awesome is than a Timberwolf Mad Cat Mk2. The irony is that except for the Novacat, most of the Clan heavies and 100% of Clan assaults () are missing a lot of armour. This is funny because it means Clantech weapons are ridiculously effective against these very same mechs, whereas against IS mechs they have (relatively) more armour to punch through and thus need the extra weapons. This is probably where you hear stories about Thanatii being able to go toe-to-toe with Timberwolves come from. It *should* be completely dominated but because the Timberwolf is missing about 2,000-some armour off the torso, it folds the second anything gets in range.

The Clan mechs with equipment racks are missing a LOT of armour, all except the Hellbringer which is packing far, far more than it should. It's seriously a Heavy mech with enough weapons to level a city but can be blown to pieces by a single Heavy Gauss shot to the chest (17 CT vs. 25 HGauss damage...).

Also I'm 90% sure one of the goals for 0.3.X was a huge balance pass with armour using CBT as a guideline which brought a lot of mechs into different places.

This doesn't even include things like the fact that practically the ENTIRE CHASSIS of the Timberwolf and Mk2 happens to be the Center Torso.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

I have to say, good post frosty. It's nice to see what in plain view how the armor stacks up from a numbers perspective.

[Frostiken]

I have to say, good post frosty. It's nice to see what in plain view how the armor stacks up from a numbers perspective.

I'd always been mystified by how quickly a Timberwolf exploded, especially when missiles were used against it. When I was trying to puzzle out where the Summoner sat in regards to armour relation, I noticed something... found out that someone apparently forgot that the Mk2 and Timberwolf have 10 armour locations on which to spread their armour, instead of the usual 8 (cockpits don't count), meaning they have tremendously less armour than they should. Summoner has 9. A rough guesstimate puts all three mechs right in the areas they're SUPPOSED to be, *if* you put the pod armour into the rest of the mech.

Oddly, the Warhammer's and Hellbringer's armour is higher than usual specifically to compensate for the equipment pods.

I don't want to make it sound like a "OMG NEED MOAR CLAN RAEP" but seriously, I expect a mech to perform to a certain level. I can forgive a bit of fudge here and there, but when an IS heavy mounting 14T of standard-grade armour is nearly exactly as durable as a Clan assault that weighs in at 20T heavier with 13T of CFF armour... this explains why Mk2s are such deathtraps as well :/ Those stupid ears!

[DFDelta]

This is probably where you hear stories about Thanatii being able to go toe-to-toe with Timberwolves come from. It *should* be completely dominated but because the Timberwolf is missing about 2,000-some armour off the torso, it folds the second anything gets in range.

I don't think that this is a (completely) bad thing.
Clan mechs already have the weapons with higher range and damage, giving them heavier armor (clan FF armor is much smaller and better then IS FF armor after all) might make balancing puretech impossible.
The underarmored Clan mechs give the IS at least the possiblility to catch up, or even surpass the clans in short range and melee combat.

[Frostiken]

I don't really object to the idea of flattening out the whole Clan > IS thing by just making them 'different' - make IS mechs like old AK-47s, reliable and sturdy,  but Clans like an SA-80, fancy and delicate... but that would mean flattening out a WHOLE lot more than just armour values. Namely, price.

Armour is the most expensive thing in the game - when you see mechs that cost so damn much, it's because point-for-point armour is extremely valuable. In the case of the Timberwolf, this means I'm buying armour that isn't doing me a god damn thing because it's spread across 10 locations, effectively, justifying a huge reduction in the cost of the mech.

Also we're no where near ready for puretech yet, so right now all this means is that Mk2s are really, really good at killing other Mk2s...

[~SJ~ Wolf]

I have to say, good post frosty. It's nice to see what in plain view how the armor stacks up from a numbers perspective.

I'd always been mystified by how quickly a Timberwolf exploded, especially when missiles were used against it. When I was trying to puzzle out where the Summoner sat in regards to armour relation, I noticed something... found out that someone apparently forgot that the Mk2 and Timberwolf have 10 armour locations on which to spread their armour, instead of the usual 8 (cockpits don't count), meaning they have tremendously less armour than they should. Summoner has 9. A rough guesstimate puts all three mechs right in the areas they're SUPPOSED to be, *if* you put the pod armour into the rest of the mech.

Oddly, the Warhammer's and Hellbringer's armour is higher than usual specifically to compensate for the equipment pods.

I don't want to make it sound like a "OMG NEED MOAR CLAN RAEP" but seriously, I expect a mech to perform to a certain level. I can forgive a bit of fudge here and there, but when an IS heavy mounting 14T of standard-grade armour is nearly exactly as durable as a Clan assault that weighs in at 20T heavier with 13T of CFF armour... this explains why Mk2s are such deathtraps as well :/ Those stupid ears!

The pods are a touchy subject. How do you beef the armor to "what it should be" without just giving it for free? Or is a free armor buff needed? I think it is. Especially the KMII. It was a deathtrap in .3.2 and still is today.

[(TLL) Heretic]

When I read the thread title I thought, "Great an in depth analysis of all the assets in the game and relative armour levels"...instead we get this;

*Best Clanfan voice*

Moooar armour on our MadCats!!! Boost my favourite machine!  Waaahhhhhh!  How am I to be uber-leet if I'm not overpowered?

*Spits dummy out*


This is almost as Hilarious as the "Mechwarrior not Tankwarrior" aka "A Partisan killed my Atlas" Thread.

[Stahlseele]

This is almost as Hilarious as the "Mechwarrior not Tankwarrior" aka "A Partisan killed my Atlas" Thread.

could have been me

[~SJ~ Wolf]

When I read the thread title I thought, "Great an in depth analysis of all the assets in the game and relative armour levels"...instead we get this;

*Best Clanfan voice*

Moooar armour on our MadCats!!! Boost my favourite machine!  Waaahhhhhh!  How am I to be uber-leet if I'm not overpowered?

*Spits dummy out*


This is almost as Hilarious as the "Mechwarrior not Tankwarrior" aka "A Partisan killed my Atlas" Thread.

Yes yes and your IS fanboy attitude wasn't written all over your post?

[Bill]

SA-80,

Haha, oh wow.

Only decent thing about it is the susat. To be honest we a a little behind the trend in terms of weapon design, but that is mainly due to budget.

[Leeko]

If the Armor and Damage values were like in CBT, MG's and small(pulse)lasers would have Assault mechs running . .

What? MGs have 3 hex (90m) range and do 1 damage (0.05 tons of armor) >_>