How could TC be improved?

[dCK-Ad_Hominem]

Hi again.

So, we have all read quite some complaints about the Terrain Control mechanics, mostly how one team can stomp another and still maintain hundreds of tickets, or how in-base tank camp ruins the flow of the game. Instead of piling up rage and disappointment I would like to use this thread in order to find possible and constructive solutions to this.

My suggestion: Give maps an even number of bases (4 or 6 instead of 5 or 7). This way the game gains a lot more action and flow since just holding 2 bases will not bring the enemy team's tickets to run out, but only holding 3 will. As a result the enemy can however group its entire force to fight back (or take a base you have left seemingly unprotected). This would give TC an element of gambling since you would have to spread your forces quite widely and would have to fight, being outnumbered, most of the time if you're trying to win. Sure killing would become a more important aspect of the game mode again (and I know the devs do not want this), but as far as I see it the pressure in TC games would increase dramatically by making these changes.

Also: Set the timer after a team has run out of tickets to like 10 minutes, 2 are just too short to finish the rest of the enemy off.

Okay, what do you think?

[Toth]

The timer is completely server configurable. Personally I feel its unnecessary at all, but thats up to the server operator. As for the TC needing to be "fixed", I think thats an extremely poor choice of words. It works quite well much of the time, and the easiest way to fix things is to maintain autobalance.

Limiting map design to a certain number of bases is not helpful, its more on how the map itself is designed.

[dCK-Ad_Hominem]

Thread title fixed.

I was unaware that the timer can be set by the server, thank you for the info Toth.

[~SJ~NotSoCoolJ]

BA carrying VTOL with paper thin armor and two door guns. Carries four BA plus the pilot. Too many of the Cap Points go undefended and both teams end up grinding over one usually. The team that gets the initial caps gains a substantial lead that is usually unbroken though most of the caps go uncontested.

This would force teams to protect any point they want to keep for very long and be a bit of a counter to the single Demo point holding we are seeing. It's hard to convince three lights to rush a point with a Demo. They know someone will die and who wants it to be them? BA is highly effective against the Demo.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

BA carrying VTOL with paper thin armor and two door guns. Carries four BA plus the pilot. Too many of the Cap Points go undefended and both teams end up grinding over one usually. The team that gets the initial caps gains a substantial lead that is usually unbroken though most of the caps go uncontested.

This would force teams to protect any point they want to keep for very long and be a bit of a counter to the single Demo point holding we are seeing. It's hard to convince three lights to rush a point with a Demo. They know someone will die and who wants it to be them? BA is highly effective against the Demo.

They a great idea, but it requires alot of work to get the asset in game.

The core issue is that, too the attacker go the spoils. Defense needs to be an attractive option.

[ELH_Nivix]

I think would good if bases can be captured by 3-4 players. Let's say if will need capture Large Base with hangar of mechbays, 3-4 teammates must be in capture zone. If it Small Base with one-two mechbays, 2 or more players must be in capture zone.

[Steppin Razor]

My experiences have been pretty good so far.  Matches have been give and take.  Scores have been fairly close.  I don't see tank camping as a problem.  Parking a demo inside of a base as a defender is a smart move.    Takes team work to get it out. Maybe big tanks are a little too cheap and AC/20 needs a little less splash.  Of course sometime one team organizes better and stomps the other.  Happened in .3 it'll happen in .5  When it gets all lopsided like that the negative tickets ends the game faster and if their good MWLL community members they will balance the teams out on the next map.  If they don't I look for another server.   I've seen lots of interesting comments on other threads on ways to improve TC.  Spread out the bases,  open up LOS on some of the maps,  remove some of the cover in the bases so snipers can fire in but none of these or other Dev made changes will let a bunch of unorganized n00bs charging into the kill box compete with a team working together and team work is very hard to institute from the outside.  Maybe some sort of auto re-balancing mechanic like sending the top players from one team to the other after a certain ticket/score imbalance occurs as a server option?  Might be fun for pub games.....     

[Dragonzord]

with regards to the timer after the tickets reach 0....

one of our local aussie servers has it set on to have no limit (which will be changed asap) and yesterday we had a match last an extra 10 minutes and everyone left the server coz there was only 1 guy left alive, hiding just to be a tool...

It totally breaks the game when 1 person can do that.

[Steppin Razor]

I think hover/VTOL APC are in the works.  Don't know about about independent gunners but there was talk of manable turrets and crysis supports driver/gunner combos so it should be possible.  Base fixation is the real problem.  If you let one team hold bases undefended while you fight over the middle you get screwed.  Send some fast lights/VTOL around the flanks, scoop up free bases and cbills.

[-AAA-]

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of stomping and a lot of Demolishers since 0.4, but I really don't think the maps themselves have anything to do with it.  As stated above, most of them seem to be pure team imbalance.  Due to the massive influx of new players, it seems both teams are always 90% cannon fodder/10% skilled player.  When the number of skilled players on each team is uneven, the team with fewer (or none) might as well not even get in their 'mechs, as they just wind up hemorrhaging points and tickets.  If we were noticing, for instance, that IS was getting pushed back and base-camped in every game of TC_Whatever, then that would be something to look at from a mapping perspective.  Making sniping more viable by doing away with some of the cover (especially ones by the cap points) in the maps is going to encourage more static play, which is what I think ultimately gave everybody version fatigue in 0.3.2.  Sniping 'mechs aren't useless now, you just have to play smart and keep moving.

Maybe some sort of auto re-balancing mechanic like sending the top players from one team to the other after a certain ticket/score imbalance occurs as a server option?  Might be fun for pub games.....     

I really, really don't see that working.  If I were doing well, and my team is doing well due to my efforts - the last thing I want to happen is to get auto-switched to the losing team (that was probably losing because of me).  If an auto-team-balance was implemented, it should prioritize by join time (last person to join is the first person to get swapped), not score.

[Toth]

To keep team sizes the same yes. We may have to do more than that though if the large imbalances continue. Improving Cbill sharing will be a better first step though. While CBill sharing is to be encouraged, it was never designed to let a whole team bank on one member, and then doll out the best shit they can afford in the first couple of spawns. It was more meant to allow bumping some teammates up one or 2 classes, and for sharing for repairs, ammo, etc. We'll see, but I think some steps will be necessary.

[Stahlseele]

By taking Salvatoris TC_Urban_Jungle into map rotation

[Steppin Razor]

Defiantly would not want to see team switching auto balancing of any kind on all servers but it may be good as an option for casual gaming.  I typically play between 10-12 EST and I usually find very good games during "prime time".  Make a server TSA_ MWLL_TrainingWheels and let new players bash away at each other on even footing.  If I only had 20mins to play I might check it out.   Better yet institute FFA! 

[KorJax]

I feel making it so a CP capture gives your team 10-15 or so tickets would be great, especially in the late game. Would allow comebacks to happen, while currently losing by 100-200 tickets pretty much means game over right there even if you somehow recap all the capture points.

Of course there'd be a limit (such as can't earn more CP back than what the enemy has or something along those lines).

[~SJ~ Griffin]

Some of maps, TC_Thunder Rift for example, could get the bases spread apart. There is a rather large area in the southeast corner that is never used. Moving the bases apart would, i think, make it harder to roflstomp. At least it would allow for use of the entire map, as it stands now no one ever goes to that corner except for the occasional noob.