New Rank Structure

[Profane Arbiter]

I don't think I've ever made it to max rank with the new system. Can someone list a complete rundown of all the ranks, the point requirements to achieve each, and their c-bill allocations?

[Rally]

Code: [Select]

clan   is      money
CDT    PVT     49 000
WR     SG      55 000
PCM    MSG     60 000
SCM    WOF     65 000
SCP    LT      70 000   <-- all lights except one unlocked here
SCL    CPT     80 000   <-- all mediums unlocked here, first heavy unlocked here
GC     MJR     90 000
SKN    COL    100 000  <-- Loki E unlocked here
KN     GEN    110 000

That's the complete rank table. Note that even the best rank won't unlock all the mechs. I'm not sure about the point requirments for each, but I guess it's about 1000 points for the final rank.

[Virt]

FWIW I feel the difficulty curve and time taken for ranking up might be just a little bit too high now.

[~SJ~ Amarus]

I prefer the tougher structure, it now forces teamplay. If you want some larger asset quickly you MUST ask for money, which means other people must be running in smaller assets or someone can bank...ect ect. Maybe the tough aspect of "ranking up" will force pubbers to actually use the chat function while playing and organize at least money if not their battle strategy.

[Ice30]

Yeah i like how it is now, feels right

[nordwars]

It is tough, but I like it. However it can be very frustrating if you never ask for cash, difficult to get a good start on the game if you start late without help, you are just always stuck in crappy mechs.

I really like how assaults and expensive heavies are now so rare, the inspire the correct amount of fear.

With the future changes to the way banking will work (preventing cbill sharing abuse - http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/topic,11437.msg178472.html#msg178472), depending on how it is done this may be too tough... we'll never be able to afford the wonderful 2xCERPPC, 2xATM-9, 2xCERSBL Madcat

But I agree that the abuse is bad and have recently stopped going out too big in the early game even if I can afford it, and not dumping all cbills on one person, but sharing it around a bit thinner.

[Ice30]

Yeah if they eliminate banking etc i hope they increase the amount a new player starts with if he arrives late to the game, because its impossible to get any points as a small mech against heavies unless you LRM camp or enjoy dying over and over without asking for money (ussualy from bank).  A mathematical system would be good, like if it worked out the average lower rank and made you that when you join after the first 10-15 mins of gameplay

[Cygma]

With the future changes to the way banking will work (preventing cbill sharing abuse - http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/topic,11437.msg178472.html#msg178472), depending on how it is done this may be too tough... we'll never be able to afford the wonderful 2xCERPPC, 2xATM-9, 2xCERSBL Madcat

I doubt the devs will make it impossible to ever get into certain assets

But I agree that the abuse is bad and have recently stopped going out too big in the early game even if I can afford it, and not dumping all cbills on one person, but sharing it around a bit thinner.

True, TC sometimes becomes an upgrade race where the first side fielding clan heavies/assaults can effectively win early by keeping the other team down with them :/
In TSA this doesn't/didn't hurt that much because you can still pick your fights and switch to hit'n'run tactics etc.

[Frostiken]

I prefer the tougher structure, it now forces teamplay. If you want some larger asset quickly you MUST ask for money, which means other people must be running in smaller assets or someone can bank...ect ect. Maybe the tough aspect of "ranking up" will force pubbers to actually use the chat function while playing and organize at least money if not their battle strategy.

I don't know about this. I've certainly noticed that CBill sharing has gone way down since 0.3.X and I tentatively suspect that it's because of the changes in cash mean that people want to hang onto their own money to try to upgrade. I used to ask for money at the round start and get four or five donations, now I'm lucky to get more than one. The problem with this is that it's making everyone learn to rely on their team having one or two really good players. Since killing a lot of dudes and not dying nets you exorbitant amounts of money, this means that the vets are the ones who can afford to trade cash out.

But what happens if you don't have one or two pros? What if your team is composed of average dudes who kill a couple guys and die consistently? Or what if your team is simply getting roflstomped? The entire point of the damage = points = rank = starting cash is so that you don't have to be an uber-elite to get into competitive hardware. Only in 0.4.X, now you do. The whole 'not dying' part of accumulating a huge pile of CBills becomes much more difficult when the enemy team is stomping around in clantech mechs 40T heavier than yours. So they end up getting more money, which makes the situation worse.

[~SJ~ Wolf]

I prefer the tougher structure, it now forces teamplay. If you want some larger asset quickly you MUST ask for money, which means other people must be running in smaller assets or someone can bank...ect ect. Maybe the tough aspect of "ranking up" will force pubbers to actually use the chat function while playing and organize at least money if not their battle strategy.

I don't know about this. I've certainly noticed that CBill sharing has gone way down since 0.3.X and I tentatively suspect that it's because of the changes in cash mean that people want to hang onto their own money to try to upgrade. I used to ask for money at the round start and get four or five donations, now I'm lucky to get more than one. The problem with this is that it's making everyone learn to rely on their team having one or two really good players. Since killing a lot of dudes and not dying nets you exorbitant amounts of money, this means that the vets are the ones who can afford to trade cash out.

But what happens if you don't have one or two pros? What if your team is composed of average dudes who kill a couple guys and die consistently? Or what if your team is simply getting roflstomped? The entire point of the damage = points = rank = starting cash is so that you don't have to be an uber-elite to get into competitive hardware. Only in 0.4.X, now you do. The whole 'not dying' part of accumulating a huge pile of CBills becomes much more difficult when the enemy team is stomping around in clantech mechs 40T heavier than yours. So they end up getting more money, which makes the situation worse.

This^ This is important. You have to be objective when you look at this type of situation. Normally you are playing with people you know will carry the match or help carry it. The casual player does not have that luxury.

[~SJ~ Amarus]

I prefer the tougher structure, it now forces teamplay. If you want some larger asset quickly you MUST ask for money, which means other people must be running in smaller assets or someone can bank...ect ect. Maybe the tough aspect of "ranking up" will force pubbers to actually use the chat function while playing and organize at least money if not their battle strategy.

I don't know about this. I've certainly noticed that CBill sharing has gone way down since 0.3.X and I tentatively suspect that it's because of the changes in cash mean that people want to hang onto their own money to try to upgrade. I used to ask for money at the round start and get four or five donations, now I'm lucky to get more than one. The problem with this is that it's making everyone learn to rely on their team having one or two really good players. Since killing a lot of dudes and not dying nets you exorbitant amounts of money, this means that the vets are the ones who can afford to trade cash out.

But what happens if you don't have one or two pros? What if your team is composed of average dudes who kill a couple guys and die consistently? Or what if your team is simply getting roflstomped? The entire point of the damage = points = rank = starting cash is so that you don't have to be an uber-elite to get into competitive hardware. Only in 0.4.X, now you do. The whole 'not dying' part of accumulating a huge pile of CBills becomes much more difficult when the enemy team is stomping around in clantech mechs 40T heavier than yours. So they end up getting more money, which makes the situation worse.

I prefer the tougher structure, it now forces teamplay. If you want some larger asset quickly you MUST ask for money, which means other people must be running in smaller assets or someone can bank...ect ect. Maybe the tough aspect of "ranking up" will force pubbers to actually use the chat function while playing and organize at least money if not their battle strategy.

I don't know about this. I've certainly noticed that CBill sharing has gone way down since 0.3.X and I tentatively suspect that it's because of the changes in cash mean that people want to hang onto their own money to try to upgrade. I used to ask for money at the round start and get four or five donations, now I'm lucky to get more than one. The problem with this is that it's making everyone learn to rely on their team having one or two really good players. Since killing a lot of dudes and not dying nets you exorbitant amounts of money, this means that the vets are the ones who can afford to trade cash out.

But what happens if you don't have one or two pros? What if your team is composed of average dudes who kill a couple guys and die consistently? Or what if your team is simply getting roflstomped? The entire point of the damage = points = rank = starting cash is so that you don't have to be an uber-elite to get into competitive hardware. Only in 0.4.X, now you do. The whole 'not dying' part of accumulating a huge pile of CBills becomes much more difficult when the enemy team is stomping around in clantech mechs 40T heavier than yours. So they end up getting more money, which makes the situation worse.

This^ This is important. You have to be objective when you look at this type of situation. Normally you are playing with people you know will carry the match or help carry it. The casual player does not have that luxury.

That is a very good point Wolf...my vision of this situation is skewed so I will bow out of this conversation

[dsaint24]

I understand the problem with banking (it causes random super heavies walking around 5 min in kinda thing). I always thought the sharing money solution was fairly easy. it is difficult for a newcomer to be of any assistance late in game with just lights. the idea is you want to be able to share bills to at least get each other out of the light category and for ammo etc.

Why not just have an unlimited share amount, but the receiver can only be capped out to lets say 80k. So if I have 49k and someone tries to send me 50k it won't allow it. The max I can receive is 31k. But if I traded away all my bills, ran out and lost my mech but ejected and make it back to base - someone could send me 80k. (Obviously there is no limit to the money you could earn from kills though)

In it's current state someone said at 80k all mediums are unlocked. Perfect. Mediums (especially bushies) can really help on the field even if it's late game. And with a medium you have a better chance of getting some points to bring yourself up in the ranks. This way we can assist each other to get out of the light category yet avoid someone being given enough money to just start out with an atlas 5 min in.

This also makes it so people still have to earn their assets as apposed to sitting at base and asking for money until you can just walk out in a heavy without having earned a single point of damage.

And last it also removes the banking system that the devs did not want because if you have over 80k you can no longer receive donations. I would think this would be a nice solution.

Thoughts?

[Profane Arbiter]

Why not just have an unlimited share amount, but the receiver can only be capped out to lets say 80k.

Or just make the cap x amount above whatever that player would normally start with for their rank. Still, an organized team can still abuse this just as easily. The starting team might not have a heavy but they would have multiple players with mediums or some such. That could be just as bad.

The new rank structure is a bit wakky IMO. I've always felt the 49k to start was sorta bizarre since were you to go lower, there are plenty of sub 40k variants available...just a strange and seemingly arbitrary c-bill allocation. Now, we also have 2 new "half ranks" where you get less of a c-bill increase than you receive at all the other ranks. The whole thing is a counter-intuitive mess my OCD nature rebels against.

How about we just start as a 40k c-bill cadet and have 120k at max with a 10k increase at every rank? This will still limit the bigger mechs from pre-.4, and we'll have a list that's a bit more workable and logical.

[Ice30]

I understand the problem with banking (it causes random super heavies walking around 5 min in kinda thing). I always thought the sharing money solution was fairly easy. it is difficult for a newcomer to be of any assistance late in game with just lights. the idea is you want to be able to share bills to at least get each other out of the light category and for ammo etc.

Why not just have an unlimited share amount, but the receiver can only be capped out to lets say 80k. So if I have 49k and someone tries to send me 50k it won't allow it. The max I can receive is 31k. But if I traded away all my bills, ran out and lost my mech but ejected and make it back to base - someone could send me 80k. (Obviously there is no limit to the money you could earn from kills though)

In it's current state someone said at 80k all mediums are unlocked. Perfect. Mediums (especially bushies) can really help on the field even if it's late game. And with a medium you have a better chance of getting some points to bring yourself up in the ranks. This way we can assist each other to get out of the light category yet avoid someone being given enough money to just start out with an atlas 5 min in.

This also makes it so people still have to earn their assets as apposed to sitting at base and asking for money until you can just walk out in a heavy without having earned a single point of damage.

And last it also removes the banking system that the devs did not want because if you have over 80k you can no longer receive donations. I would think this would be a nice solution.

Thoughts?

Yeah i like this idea +karma

[Profane Arbiter]

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