Author Topic: So... Mechlab...  (Read 2361 times)

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Offline Mattk50

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So... Mechlab...
« on: January 22, 2011, 11:35:17 PM »
To the point, half of what i like about mechwarrior is the ability to customize your mechs. i understand its in the road map, but can we have an estimate about what is priority right now? if anything, i think the mechlab should be that priority.

Offline Stahlseele

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2011, 11:49:13 PM »
Well, it is planned for the 1.0 release, as far as i remember . .
And right now, we are at 0.4.3 . .
So it will probably take quite a while, untill we get it.
If ever. I have seen more than one mod die before getting to 1.0 release <.<
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Offline GB-72AT Talon

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2011, 12:32:09 AM »
what worries me is the game engine limitations they always seem to cite as to why popular ideas are not implemented.....and how they always like to point out that they dont have a full SDK for Cryengine2......why choose to start development on a closed engine database that is not as flexible as you want and is already years old? 

i can see the mod moving to an entirely new game engine before the mechlab is out



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Offline -SM-SUCKER

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2011, 01:18:07 AM »
Atm we got plenty of variants. It should be easy to find a few that suit you.
The main concern I would have with the Mechlab (others might share this thought), is that it would promote boating of the "strongest" weapons and equipment.
Right now this would mean UAC20 and GECM everywhere.
Or some flying fortresses with BxP, ELRM and NARCS.

Offline Stahlseele

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2011, 01:24:43 AM »
Or KRAKEN.
PLINKING PLINKING
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
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Offline AlfalphaCat

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011, 04:01:59 AM »
I think they said that weapon and gameplay balance are a priority/requisite before Mechlab gets implemented.  And yeah, we won't see it till the Mod is 'done', I think that is a wise decision.   :)

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Offline [CW] Lictor

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2011, 04:35:12 AM »
Agreed, get the basic game balance down and set before breaking it by introducing min/maxing via the mech lab.



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Offline ~SJ~NotSoCoolJ

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2011, 04:38:24 AM »
Atm we got plenty of variants. It should be easy to find a few that suit you.
The main concern I would have with the Mechlab (others might share this thought), is that it would promote boating of the "strongest" weapons and equipment.
Right now this would mean UAC20 and GECM everywhere.
Or some flying fortresses with BxP, ELRM and NARCS.

As opposed to being saddled with the boats that the devs have already made and everyone takes anyway? There are 4 Uzi variants and only one is worth playing. By the time you can afford it it's already outclassed.

No one wants to be the guy that runs up on a 4HMBL Shadowcat. Honestly, as long as there are drawbacks for doing such, I could care less. Giving up armor and speed for more hitting power is appropriate. Too many of the current variants are limp and serve no purpose. I am not really sure I understand the fear of boating that all of you seem to have. You might maximize fire power but on the same note, you minimize utility. Every weapon in this game has it's drawbacks.

Really only two ways to go with this. Remove all boats from the variant list and have no mechlab, or implement a system that insures that boats are not all pro and no con. It appears that the devs have a handle on the situation. There is already a 4CERPPC Novacat. I'm not sure how much harder you can boat. Seems to me this is one of the reasons that the boat configs exist in the state that they do now. If you have the most egregious boat setups available and they are already balanced within context, I don't see how a mechlab is going to cause problems.

Offline sgnl05

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2011, 04:42:39 AM »
Atm we got plenty of variants. It should be easy to find a few that suit you.
The main concern I would have with the Mechlab (others might share this thought), is that it would promote boating of the "strongest" weapons and equipment.
Right now this would mean UAC20 and GECM everywhere.
Or some flying fortresses with BxP, ELRM and NARCS.

I think everyone is worried about this.

I hope what'll happen is that the mechlab doesn't make it in until very late in development, and even then it's very restrictive. Perhaps something like:


you can't modify empty chassis, only variants.

You can only fit a gun to the matching podmount (so an assault class energy hardpoint can only take assault class energy weapons).

You can't fit multiple weapons on the one podmount. One podmount = one gun.

You can downgrade podmounts to a smaller one of the same type, but you can't upgrade them to a bigger one or change the podmount type, and you don't get any extra tonnage from taking a smaller podmount (though of course you will get extra tonnage from taking a smaller weapon).

If omnimounts are used at all they should be used sparingly and still shouldn't be able to take more than one weapon. The only difference would be that you could take weapons of any type (energy, ballistic or missile). You'd still be limited to one gun and you couldn't fit a bigger gun than the mount would allow, no matter how many tons you had.

Equipment options (JJ, GECM, BAP etc) would be limited to chassis type or even variant. Perhaps you could add add them on some variants or take them off to get a few extra tons, but you wouldn't be able to just whack them on anything. I'd also like to see equipment taking up more tons for heavier mechs, or the "take GECM for 1 ton" option is going to be a bit of a no brainer on a heavy mech.

So if you had a variant that mounted 1 ERPPC and a AC20, you could perhaps downgrade the ERPPC to a PPC in order to free up tons to swap the AC20 for a UAC20, but you couldn't, for example, rip all the guns out in order to cram 8 MBLs in. You could even swap the assault energy podmount out for a heavy energy podmount so you could take a LBL instead of the ERPPC and use the extra tons to take a UAC20 and several tons of spare ammo, but that'd be about as far as you could go.


That way boating could be discouraged by making variants that simply don't allow the player to cram a lot of weapons of the same type in in the mechlab.

EDIT:


 I am not really sure I understand the fear of boating that all of you seem to have. You might maximize fire power but on the same note, you minimize utility. Every weapon in this game has it's drawbacks.



I think most players would be cool with boating if it was really no better than mixed setups overall, but right now the preference for boats suggests that boating has more advantages than disadvantages. If this can be "fixed" even with a mechlab then that's great, but I'm not sure any mechwarrior game to date has managed to allow boating without also making boats the better choice on balance than mixed weapon configs. If MWLL can pull it off then that's awesome, but if they can't I'd rather see boating discouraged through other gameplay means.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 04:50:58 AM by sgnl05 »
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Offline Cujo

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2011, 04:51:11 AM »
Oh no...not again.

Offline Bill

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2011, 06:02:55 AM »


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Offline xDeityx

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2011, 06:16:23 AM »
Oh no...not again.

Are you surprised?  Customization has classically been one of the coolest features in every MW game.

On the boating issue:  If a particular boat gets out of hand, it will simply serve to highlight weapon imbalances for the devs to fix.  Waiting until the game is Perfectly Balanced(tm) is a fool's errand, so waiting until that point to introduce a mechlab is dumb.  Get the mechlab ready, throw it out there, and let the beta testers highlight the problems with it so the devs can fix it and having a working lab for the public sooner.
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Offline (TLL)CapperDeluxe

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2011, 07:24:02 AM »
Oh no...not again.

Are you surprised?  Customization has classically been one of the coolest features in every MW game.

He means discussion wise this topic has been beaten to a bloody pulp and then sold for organ donations


So to add to it all I would say that the devs have a solid grip on what it means to be able to allow for customization while maintaining a balance across the stock configurations... I think its in very very good hands
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Offline =KoS=toasterpastries

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2011, 07:28:58 AM »
Can we just make a sticky containing all of the subjects that have been discussed ad nauseum?


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Offline Wolfcat9

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Re: So... Mechlab...
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2011, 07:38:09 AM »

Is it possible to lock out any attempt to generate another "I want a mechlab" thread until the devs decide to release one?

 

 
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