Author Topic: lower aa vech damge to mechs  (Read 947 times)

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Offline natehamm

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lower aa vech damge to mechs
« on: January 24, 2011, 11:42:07 AM »
as it stands right now a aa tank can do more damge to a mech than it can do to a aerocraft. dotn u think something wrong there. a aa tank is that aa. its will be weak against mechs and other tanks due to its focus being just that aa.tested it on a empty server with someone and a shot per shot bases a aa tank can kill all the 44k and under light mechs before they can even get it to yellow on armor.gettin boring to go into a game ther be no air on the map and 1/3rd teh opposing team using aa tank cause they know it can kill any light and medium(till the more expensive oens)mech before it dies

Offline AlfalphaCat

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 11:57:29 AM »
You have a light 'Mech, I think you may have an advantage, try and use it... :)

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Offline Askis

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 01:35:06 PM »
Last patch, people were pissed that the Partisans did practically no damage to 'Mechs ::)

Offline Blu C

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 03:03:54 PM »
AA vehicles are only really capable of threatening the more lightly armored 'Mechs.  The most dangerous AA 'Mech is a Huit which is practically a stationary brick.

If you are having problems hitting a Partisan you are probably going about it wrong.  Try to hit them with a friend if possible and roll up right into their face to slip behind them easily.  Tanks really have problems dealing with enemy 'Mechs even 1v1 because of the massive mobility differences.  If there are 2 of you it is laughably easy to get one of you behind the Tank and drill the back armor.  Dodging is also advised if your armor is really thin.  And try not to expose your back armor, I've seen Light 'Mechs jump over me before and when I flip my turret they just end up getting sprayed on their weak back armor.

Offline Frostiken

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 03:11:49 PM »
Eh?

The Siege Engine successfully (more or less) rolls around with 4x UAC5s and tears shit up. Partisan has 4 AC5s. Not quite the same thing but...


TBH the problem is just how early it is available, but there's no other early-game AA.

Which is why I proposed making standard MGuns good against air units. You could stack like 12 of the goddamn things on a Partisan.

Offline Stahlseele

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2011, 03:27:09 PM »
Eh?

The Siege Engine successfully (more or less) rolls around with 4x UAC5s and tears shit up. Partisan has 4 AC5s. Not quite the same thing but...


TBH the problem is just how early it is available, but there's no other early-game AA.

Which is why I proposed making standard MGuns good against air units. You could stack like 12 of the goddamn things on a Partisan.
Needs more reach though.
And the reason why the AA Tanks do more damage against ground targets than against air is that VTOLS are ballooning tanks and aerospace are flying fast and high. it's HARDER to do damage against Aero Assets.
If yu are hit while in a light mech, you are not moving fast enough.
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Offline (TLL)CapperDeluxe

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 03:31:09 PM »
the best way to deal with AA partisan when you're in a light/medium mech is to keep to cover except to loose your volleys, that way he only gets to plink you when you come out to take a shot, thereby negating their hight DPS effects.
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Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2011, 04:05:44 PM »
One mech. Just one.

Uller C. Will utterly rape any partisan it sees.

But despite everything, I still very much feel AC/5 needs to be reworked to a burst fire mechanic.
Its ok if you boat the shit out of it at ridiculous weight levels.. but one or even two? Pfft useless.

The Huit does hurt... But its a super duper boat tank and only goes 30 kph.

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Offline Stahlseele

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2011, 04:50:14 PM »
Burst fire would make AC's almost useless against flying things.
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
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Offline IG142

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 06:06:15 PM »
I'd support either burst fire or simply slower fire rates for AC5s, for better effectiveness against ground targets non-boated.

Burst fire may make hitting aircraft more difficult, but consider this: AC5s in of themselves do not have to be dedicated AA guns. The only places AC5s are clearly intended for AA are where they are boated, like the 4xAC5 Partisan. In these cases, simply chainfire to quadruple your flak rate, problem solved. The only places AA fire would be difficult is if you only had 1-2 AC5s, in which case how are you to say they are meant for dedicated AA? (the Huit has only two, but those are Ultras with double the firerate.)

The Partisan with burst/slower AC5s would be a bit of a monster, yes, but it is an 80 ton tank same as the Demolisher. It should be nasty. Of course this does mean it would need a price increase, which would then require another asset to fill in for early AA, and so on. With all the side-effects this would be more of a long-term change, not a quick fix/rebalance.

As for Partisans right now against mechs, even an Osiris Prime can take one on. MASC around behind and laser it in the rear, fire SRMs for screenshake, torso twist to spread damage, run behind cover. Repeat.
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Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2011, 08:00:08 PM »
Furthermore, Ac/5s are only really useful against aircraft on their final approach when they drop below 800m. Until then, they are really just acting like a couple more AC/2s, burst fire AC/5 would lose little AA capability, particularly against aircraft diving for the user in a straight line.

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Offline VictorMorson

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2011, 08:31:35 PM »
the best way to deal with AA partisan when you're in a light/medium mech is to keep to cover except to loose your volleys, that way he only gets to plink you when you come out to take a shot, thereby negating their hight DPS effects.

Pretty much what he said.  AC5s aren't very effective at doing more than support damage, and rely on a mech to move in a pattern that makes it easily hit.

I would, however, like to see their bonus against VTOLs restored.
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Offline Blu_Haze

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2011, 09:00:49 PM »
I love the partisan prime.

For a while it was by far one of my favorite starting assets. I've joined games already in progress where the enemy had completely dominated the map, and were camping the spawn base in mediums and heavies. With just one partisan prime I was able to push their entire camping force back, watching them all run for cover one by one once they realized bits of their armor were starting to turn cherry red.

It's an extremely versatile machine, being able to swat down ASF overhead, instagib any annoying BA nearby, and still very much hold its own against any light or even medium mech.

That said though, I've often thought that it is slightly overbearing when considering a 1v1 situation between a partisan and a light mech. It's very obvious to me who is experienced with fighting enemy tanks, and who is not. To be completely honest, someone who doesn't know specific strategies for killing a tank wouldn't really stand a chance against me 1 on 1 with them in a light mech. The partisan simply has too much armor, and the damage over time that it can put out is just too much for a light mech to fumble their way through it if the partisan pilot is even somewhat competent.

I think that Mechman was spot on though about how to stand up against an enemy partisan. I remember a while back I used to get completely creamed against a partisan in my favorite light mechs. My little Owens B was a champ against enemy mechs, but cannon fodder to the little quad AC5 terror. Then I started to try a more strategic approach, similar to what mechman was describing. Using the torso twist to my advantage for spreading the damage around a bit, diving for cover when it's available, and most importantly engaging masc to sprint behind him, or even at random intervals, to make myself less predictable.

Using my enhanced mobility as an advantage, I've been able to take down partisans even when they had backup and I was all alone, plus I've also been able to kill even demolisher primes in an Owens B using speed and cover. If you stand there and let a partisan prime wail on you, then you WILL end up cored. Throughout MechWarrior history, light mechs have always relied on speed to survive, rather than just soaking up the damage like a heavy or an assault.


Ideally what I'd like to see happen though is for the partisan to be slightly more expensive than what it is. I believe that it would feel more appropriate in the same price range as most medium mechs are. Then I'd like to see a new asset, one that's slightly less armored, but also much faster, and equipped with quad AC2 as the early game dedicated AA asset. Mechman is completely right when he mentioned that the Partisan is an 80 ton tank, and that it should feel like one. At first I was surprised at how slow the thing was, because I always thought it was supposed to be the light tank, and the demo was supposed to be the heavy tank. Then I looked it up and found out that it was in fact a heavy tank itself as well.

Offline [IPA] Bravo Cadett

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2011, 10:45:53 PM »
landhecht aka Pike ^^ 3AC2 and some 2 SRM 2's
could work as early AA unit for both teams ...

Offline Moe479

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Re: lower aa vech damge to mechs
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2011, 10:52:24 PM »
lowering the damage vs mechs and other ground units might be the wrong way ... just increase ac5s spread ... that would turn out the 4 ac5 partisan into a better AA-Tank but lowering its dps on not that fast targets like mechs, just like the RAC2 act but not that extreme, actualy it has laser precision with ac5s so what is the diffrence to an huit with 6 LPL?
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