A different approach to cut back on legging.

[Taemien]

Legging is not a game issue. Its a community one.
Should we put a language filter into the mod as well?

Its simple. Don't invite leggers into your units. And don't PUB. You won't have to worry about intentional leggers. Thats been the solution since 1995.

To be honest I don't see the reason for people getting worked up about it. I don't leg, and I don't get pissed that I've been legged. In MWLL your mech is still dangerous on the ground after being legged. You can still eject and harass the opponent. Also usually I kill my opponent before I can get legged. Actually usually I don't engage into a fight where I can get legged, since I won't duel someone.

Yeah call me whatever but I won't engage anyone by myself unless I know for a fact I have the upper hand. I don't know whats passive. I don't know where their ASF/Vtols are at. I don't know what BA are hiding out nearby. I know most of the people complaining about legging are in Clan themed units and I know alot of you do the dueling thing for practice. But in a PUB, dueling is going to get you some heartache quick. You can't run after someone thinking, "haha this guy is by himself, I'll take him on myself while my teammates keep his busy!" You're going to get legged, bombed, and all sorts of nasty little things.

I mean its a sound tactic to catch a duel oriented player in a trap, leg him and leave them to rot. They have to eject and go back to base. Once they eject, kill the mech on the ground for cbills and let him go back to base. The trip takes longer then a 30 second respawn. Thats 31 seconds to 2 minutes his team is one down. Thats not unsportsmanlike conduct, thats just smart play. Had said person not been lured into a trap, this would never had been an issue.

Now if you got people legging you in the grandmelee, they are just stupid. Its not as effective as killing them right out. Or even tearing arms off. I'm going to Arm a Novacat or Scat before I even think about legging them. A legged Ncat or Scat in the middle of the battlefield is still 100% threatening. Where missing an arm they are 50%, or 0% if dead.

When I get legged in that example I keep firing till my torso is in the black then commence with the BA harassment, I still get a few kills sometimes, especially if friendlies are still nearby.

If you're taking it personally when you get legged. Well I don't know what to tell you other then to lighten up. Its a game. I guess all I can say is I'm glad I don't have to deal with you over ventrilo or teamspeak. You're definitely the kind of person I wouldn't be guilded with in a MMO. Or unit if I ever decided to join one. The game is a game, not a job.

[[IPA] Bravo Cadett]

The game is a game, not a job.

both could be fun or a pain in the ass ... thats the point ...
if i get legged 3 time by the same person while in a lighter mech ... yeah hell he's the king ... but could happend that he became the lone kind of the server ...

and yeah its smart to lag some1 and let him walk home to the base ...
1. time wasted
2. no respawn cash
3. rage quit and you are soon alone on the server ...

do what you pleased ... but dont cry if others are not pleased with the things you do ...

[=CJW=YalK]

@ Taemien....don't turn this beaten to dead topic into only clan players complain about legging....just....don't...

I'm in Jade Wolf, and in CBT I'm an ardent Jade Falcon...I have zero, zero problem with legging or gang banging on pub matches...dueling is something you agree on with your opponent. Otherwise you play as normal...You can't expect pubbers to duel, and I DON'T think most clanners do....

Even in CBT you don't EXPECT your untrustworthy  Innersphere opponent to honor Zell...but you hope they are wise enough to do so...

...and I DON'T think most players complaining about legging ARE in "clan" clans (man that gets confusing)...I think they are newb's (not noobs) or it's someone getting griefed by another player. In that case it's a case of griefing not legging....

Otherwise, I agree with you....

"Don't put yourself in unforgivable situations" is prob the most important tenant in warfare...so it situational awareness, given that, I expect to get boned when I slip into target fixation everytime...

The only reason I curse when I get legged is that I don't eject...ever, I try and save my mech and I fight to the end....so it sucks when I have to abandon my mech, but meh, not a big deal...

I wish you could self-destruct....so I can have a honorable death when legged....and if it didn't take Cbill's away it would rob the enemy of finishing off the abandoned mech....maybe make it a timer so that you could get out and a enemy had time to finish you if you were hurt elsewhere....

Final thought,
Remember: "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake, its not polite"

[Bill]

Further solutions to the legging plague!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE9wZMGaJzo

[Taemien]

@ Taemien....don't turn this beaten to dead topic into only clan players complain about legging....just....don't...

I'm in Jade Wolf, and in CBT I'm an ardent Jade Falcon...I have zero, zero problem with legging or gang banging on pub matches...dueling is something you agree on with your opponent. Otherwise you play as normal...You can't expect pubbers to duel, and I DON'T think most clanners do....

Even in CBT you don't EXPECT your untrustworthy  Innersphere opponent to honor Zell...but you hope they are wise enough to do so...

...and I DON'T think most players complaining about legging ARE in "clan" clans (man that gets confusing)...I think they are newb's (not noobs) or it's someone getting griefed by another player. In that case it's a case of griefing not legging....

Otherwise, I agree with you....

"Don't put yourself in unforgivable situations" is prob the most important tenant in warfare...so it situational awareness, given that, I expect to get boned when I slip into target fixation everytime...

The only reason I curse when I get legged is that I don't eject...ever, I try and save my mech and I fight to the end....so it sucks when I have to abandon my mech, but meh, not a big deal...

I wish you could self-destruct....so I can have a honorable death when legged....and if it didn't take Cbill's away it would rob the enemy of finishing off the abandoned mech....maybe make it a timer so that you could get out and a enemy had time to finish you if you were hurt elsewhere....

Final thought,
Remember: "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake, its not polite"

I said most, not all. If the shoe fits, wear it. Otherwise, shotgun blast over the head.

I know most of the people complaining about legging are in Clan themed units and I know alot of you do the dueling thing for practice.

[[IPA] Thalamus]

Further solutions to the legging plague!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE9wZMGaJzo

This, is, in a subtle way, one of the rather creepy videos on youtube oO

[Taemien]

The game is a game, not a job.

both could be fun or a pain in the ass ... thats the point ...
if i get legged 3 time by the same person while in a lighter mech ... yeah hell he's the king ... but could happend that he became the lone kind of the server ...

and yeah its smart to lag some1 and let him walk home to the base ...
1. time wasted
2. no respawn cash
3. rage quit and you are soon alone on the server ...

do what you pleased ... but dont cry if others are not pleased with the things you do ...

We'll have to agree to disagree on the third point. I don't believe me legging someone is going to empty the entire server. Sorry, I just don't. You can spout off till you're blue in the face but I won't believe it will happen until it happens.

Personally I usually aim center mast. If a shot goes awry and damages the leg to where its good to pop it off instead, then I'll do it. Or if its already damaged from someone else. Its very very rare that I'll leg someone from the get go. Unless I'm in a slower mech and think they may try to run for it. Though now I think I'm going to muck with those duel oriented players, you know the ones that run off on their own and screw over their team? Or heck even those ravens that popping that C3 for their LT's. Leg'm so that C3 doesn't reach our positions.

If thats enough to make you rage quit. Just stop joining servers, stick to your little unit to unit skirmishes on those leagues that have all those funky crazy rules. That will do us ALL a favor.

[[IPA] Bravo Cadett]

i'm not in a unit ...
i just play public

and leggin in a short term doesn't make an server empty ... but for some1 whos new in the game ... joins his first round online and think "hell yeah, lets ride some of these steel monsters, and not a little crappy (80 ton AC metal storm of death) tank" and then get leggt 5 times or more by the same player ? you think this guy would ever play again ?
maybe he give tranks a try ... but what would be the first thing he do ? right ! buy the crappy (80 ton AC metal storm of death) tank and saw of some legs ...

[Bobby]

General_Armchair's idea is a very discrete way to discourage chronic legging. He explained several times that he wasn't against it, and even gave sound examples of acceptable situations (that I noticed were ignored in some of the following responses).

All he would like to see is having those persistant leggers suffer, simple as that. I really don't see why some of the individuals here have jumped on him like this, as this is by far one of the most (assuming) easiest things to implement that actually makes sense. An Assault unit laying face up (or in some cases, face down and through the ground) is generally useless, and so they should be valued as much. Hell, I'd say this applies to "armed" mechs too. They're just not as much of a threat, so it should reflect in their point value. Just like BA, which is already implemented.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

^ i agree with Bobby here, the solution that Armchari suggest is actually quite good and i would go even one further to say, if a mech is legged, upon destruction it's only worth 1 ticket lost versus it's full ticket value when cored.

[Taemien]

i'm not in a unit ...
i just play public

and leggin in a short term doesn't make an server empty ... but for some1 whos new in the game ... joins his first round online and think "hell yeah, lets ride some of these steel monsters, and not a little crappy (80 ton AC metal storm of death) tank" and then get leggt 5 times or more by the same player ? you think this guy would ever play again ?
maybe he give tranks a try ... but what would be the first thing he do ? right ! buy the crappy (80 ton AC metal storm of death) tank and saw of some legs ...

I started playing MW3 in 1998 online. Legging was the norm. In fact you'd be limping after a 30 ton firefly group 1'd then group 2'd (can't alpha with that many energy weapons without lighting up) you. Then dead 2 seconds later after they blew it off with the second shot (using 16 ER Small Lasers or 8-12 ER Medium Lasers). Didn't matter if you were in a 35 ton Owens or a 100 ton Diashi.

2011 I am still playing MechWarrior. Got legged alot in MW3 and MW4 and its iterations. I don't see legging happening with a fraction of the frequency as I saw in previous games. In fact I didn't see anyone get legged in the last 5 games I played. With the exception of a Loki which I legged. Was the only part of the mech I could see from the bunker while running as BA.

I'm pretty sure once a newbie learns how to get out of the mechbay then the home base, they are good to go, getting legged won't bother them.


As for the OP's suggestion. Yeah, I'll go for a 1 ticket thing on destruction of legged assets. If and only if it applies to arming as well. In my opinion getting armed is worse then legging. Its unsportsmanlike to destroy all of an opponents weapons like that. Its griefing someone to make their mech unable to return fire. Its bad for the new player to get this steel monster thats better then a little crappy 80 ton tank only to get the arms blown off 5 times by the same player over and over.

Yeah see how ridiculous that sounds?

If legging was an exploit, then I'd say fix it somehow. But its not. Even the chronic legging. Here's a hint. If you kill the person trying to leg you, he can't leg you while dead.

[=KoS= Tripod]

Man, I really hate when people core my mech it makes it explode and I have no chance to fight back
At least when I get legged I can rape their face as BA. Cored mechs should be worth less points because they are no threat.

No offence, Bobby and Square, but that is the thing that is wrong with this thread. Legging takes MORE skill (and sometimes time) to achieve a less optimal result, same with arming. Why punish people by reducing the amount of points they had to "can't even repair and rearm" levels because they went for a harder, more specialized attack instead of killing the enemy outright?

If the guy decided to go for the CT, the enemy would likely take less time to kill, and won't have a chance to get you as BA. Its basically just punishing a fair tactic best used against mechs that are too fast to do much damage to otherwise, make their legs an easy target by standing still, charging directly at you or experienced pilots who give you a hard time by constantly spinning their torsos.

For example, lets say you will earn roughly 30,000 cbills for coring a certain mech.  If you first leg that mech, then subsequently kill the defenseless corpse, you only earn about 10,000 cbills.

This part irks me the most.

It's a "defenseless corpse" because I used my skill or judgement to get it there. I didn't just click a button and tadaa! easy kill. In most cases, going for the legs gives the enemy an advantage, and when it doesn't, it was the enemies fault for being completely still in my line of fire. It'd be just as much of a defenseless wreck if I cored it like everyone else, wouldn't it?

[Taemien]

Just for the record, I think I've killed more people or caused the death of (though narcing and C3), after being legged and able to still fight back, then I've killed myself by legging the opponent. I dunno, maybe I just suck at legging or something.

But yeah I've got to agree with ManCowFish on the accuracy it takes to leg someone. You really got to focus. There's a reason why in Marksmanship in the Army we aim center mast. Its the biggest part of the target to hit (mechs are roughly humanoid in shape give or take).  Those chronic leggers are you all call them, if they are that good at taking out the leg, I'd hate to see what they could do if they aimed for the torso instead.

But again I haven't encountered them much except in a Raven. And I won't name names of the ones that have done it (hate for them to be ostracized for a legit tactic), but some of them are your peers.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

The point, i suppose, would to be make an environment where players don't feel as helpless (yes i know that this statement could also be applied to being stealth bomb while in a slow asset). 

Arming and legging are not equal condition regardless of the argument.  Arm'd you are still mobile and can escape with the potential to sell your mech for salvage.  Getting legged forces the player to maybe trudge back and having  much less cash to buy an asset with.  Now it could be said, "just fight and get killed so you can have more money" OR "just ask for money".

The mechanic is not to remove legging completely, just to make it not primary tactic.

This will always be an circular argument as, what's the best way to stop a speedy light mech that's being piloted by a vet?  Leg him as coring him, especially early game, is very hard.

MORE than anything I wanted to show support for Armchair so he didn't feel like he was being ganged up and have a negative view of the community.  He's new (to commenting here), and hasn't been a in the war of attrition threads we've had on this subject.

[Steelbarrage]

I'm tired of this lame excuse that legging takes skill. Maybe for the sniper at 600m but every legging ive had is by a LBX demo that puts two bursts into my legs. Cronic leggers do not use lasers they take out weapons with high RoF or big burst damage. And really, how many leggings have you seen standing still. I for one have seen zero, the legging that occurs always is from a mech moving around.