Author Topic: A different approach to cut back on legging.  (Read 3534 times)

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Offline =KoS= Tripod

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2011, 12:18:56 AM »
The point, i suppose, would to be make an environment where players don't feel as helpless (yes i know that this statement could also be applied to being stealth bomb while in a slow asset). 

Arming and legging are not equal condition regardless of the argument.  Arm'd you are still mobile and can escape with the potential to sell your mech for salvage.  Getting legged forces the player to maybe trudge back and having  much less cash to buy an asset with.  Now it could be said, "just fight and get killed so you can have more money" OR "just ask for money".

The mechanic is not to remove legging completely, just to make it not primary tactic.

This will always be an circular argument as, what's the best way to stop a speedy light mech that's being piloted by a vet?  Leg him as coring him, especially early game, is very hard.

MORE than anything I wanted to show support for Armchair so he didn't feel like he was being ganged up and have a negative view of the community.  He's new (to commenting here), and hasn't been a in the war of attrition threads we've had on this subject.
I understand that the community can get a little grumpy after a new patch, and people new to the forum may get rubbed the wrong way, but if you post something, expect to get a reply ;)

BTW, the thing I highlighted is a total overstatement

All the "legging is bad and takes no skill" people act like it happens every 5 seconds. I rarely see a legged mech in-game, and when I get legged, I don't act like you did the cheapest thing in the world. I actually ENJOY getting legged. It's far better than "just one moar alpha!!!!->" *respawn screen* instead I jump out, and have a chance to finish him off

I think that since 0.4 came out, I legged about 2 enemies, was legged once and saw two legged mechs that I didn't leg. Compare that to the countless people that got cored, and you see that it isn't (and IMO has never been) a primary tactic

Some people just have to understand that they'd be beaten either way, but legging gives them another chance and takes the "sting" out of the death screen in a close fight
I'm tired of this lame excuse that legging takes skill. Maybe for the sniper at 600m but every legging ive had is by a LBX demo that puts two bursts into my legs. Cronic leggers do not use lasers they take out weapons with high RoF or big burst damage. And really, how many leggings have you seen standing still. I for one have seen zero, the legging that occurs always is from a mech moving around.
Legging with lasers at long range is the easiest way to leg IMO

protip: don't rush things with LBX, they'll rape your face, arm, chest, leg, whatever,
Legging an enemy that is on the move is far less efficient and accurate than shooting at their torso (unless they're an assault, and even then, there's a ton of armor) If you try to leg a moving enemy, you're giving him 10 seconds to live (not even counting the face in the ground time) that he would otherwise not have.

If you get legged while sprinting in an Owens, Scat, Osi, etc.. you would have been dead long ago otherwise
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Offline Taemien

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2011, 12:29:20 AM »
I'm tired of this lame excuse that legging takes skill. Maybe for the sniper at 600m but every legging ive had is by a LBX demo that puts two bursts into my legs. Cronic leggers do not use lasers they take out weapons with high RoF or big burst damage. And really, how many leggings have you seen standing still. I for one have seen zero, the legging that occurs always is from a mech moving around.

Why are you that close to a LBX Demo? That asset is the king of <300 meters next to the Beatstick.

What I think is happening is you're so close to the Demo that they can't hit anything but the legs. The tank would have cored you otherwise. If the demo is aiming for the legs, they're doing it wrong, take advantage of it. Keep firing and finish them off (you did do damage to them right?). Before you get cored, bail out and pop him with C8 and SRM. Buy a new mech (assuming this is TC and you just capped the base) with your cbills you got for destroying the demo and carry on. If you didn't get enough damage in, then you were outplayed. The demo driver spread out his/her damage amongst the sides... or you just missed too much or accidently hit the turret too much rather then a quadrant. Respawn and try again. It happens.

Offline Steelbarrage

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2011, 12:42:24 AM »
Sorry, but when you are engaged with 2 other mechs and a demo waddles up and legs you what are you to do. Personally I'm not the one with the problem this is just what I see happen to other people. Also I rarely if ever lose to a demo up close unless they do choose to leg. Thats mostly why I pound them as i close and finish up close. I refer mostly to the cronic leggers not so much the tactical decision leggers.
Also, use your thinker a little more. If I pop out against a LBX demo as ba thats really useful, not to mention bailing out is the lamest thing ever only reserved for the very last kill shot.

Offline =CJW=YalK

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2011, 01:00:03 AM »

I'm in Jade Wolf, and in CBT I'm an ardent Jade Falcon...I have zero, zero problem with legging or gang banging on pub matches...dueling is something you agree on with your opponent. Otherwise you play as normal...You can't expect pubbers to duel, and I DON'T think most clanners do....

I said most too, not all....don't say most if it's not the case....Cause it's not...



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Offline Taemien

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2011, 01:27:00 AM »
Sorry, but when you are engaged with 2 other mechs and a demo waddles up and legs you what are you to do. Personally I'm not the one with the problem this is just what I see happen to other people. Also I rarely if ever lose to a demo up close unless they do choose to leg. Thats mostly why I pound them as i close and finish up close. I refer mostly to the cronic leggers not so much the tactical decision leggers.
Also, use your thinker a little more. If I pop out against a LBX demo as ba thats really useful, not to mention bailing out is the lamest thing ever only reserved for the very last kill shot.

Umm 3v1? You got ganged up on. You got legged so you wouldn't run I'm guessing.

Bailing out being lame is a matter of opinion.

Don't know what else to tell you. I've been playing the MechWarrior franchise for the last 13 years and legging hasn't bothered me yet. Its been far worse in the past, far far worse.

Offline Frostiken

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2011, 03:25:48 AM »
I'm tired of this lame excuse that legging takes skill. Maybe for the sniper at 600m but every legging ive had is by a LBX demo that puts two bursts into my legs. Cronic leggers do not use lasers they take out weapons with high RoF or big burst damage. And really, how many leggings have you seen standing still. I for one have seen zero, the legging that occurs always is from a mech moving around.

Why are you that close to a LBX Demo? That asset is the king of <300 meters next to the Beatstick.

What I think is happening is you're so close to the Demo that they can't hit anything but the legs. The tank would have cored you otherwise. If the demo is aiming for the legs, they're doing it wrong, take advantage of it. Keep firing and finish them off (you did do damage to them right?). Before you get cored, bail out and pop him with C8 and SRM. Buy a new mech (assuming this is TC and you just capped the base) with your cbills you got for destroying the demo and carry on. If you didn't get enough damage in, then you were outplayed. The demo driver spread out his/her damage amongst the sides... or you just missed too much or accidently hit the turret too much rather then a quadrant. Respawn and try again. It happens.

I'm curious as to if you think any aspect of this game *isn't* flawless, at least in a manner you can't justify with jaw-droppingly ridiculous mental gymnastics.

Offline Taemien

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2011, 05:03:57 AM »
I'm tired of this lame excuse that legging takes skill. Maybe for the sniper at 600m but every legging ive had is by a LBX demo that puts two bursts into my legs. Cronic leggers do not use lasers they take out weapons with high RoF or big burst damage. And really, how many leggings have you seen standing still. I for one have seen zero, the legging that occurs always is from a mech moving around.

Why are you that close to a LBX Demo? That asset is the king of <300 meters next to the Beatstick.

What I think is happening is you're so close to the Demo that they can't hit anything but the legs. The tank would have cored you otherwise. If the demo is aiming for the legs, they're doing it wrong, take advantage of it. Keep firing and finish them off (you did do damage to them right?). Before you get cored, bail out and pop him with C8 and SRM. Buy a new mech (assuming this is TC and you just capped the base) with your cbills you got for destroying the demo and carry on. If you didn't get enough damage in, then you were outplayed. The demo driver spread out his/her damage amongst the sides... or you just missed too much or accidently hit the turret too much rather then a quadrant. Respawn and try again. It happens.

I'm curious as to if you think any aspect of this game *isn't* flawless, at least in a manner you can't justify with jaw-droppingly ridiculous mental gymnastics.

VTOL's currently. Though that was a goof on the Dev's part that they are fixing.

Sorry, I didn't know that getting within 300 meters of dual LBX20s in a 3v1 was the thing to do.

Offline Frostiken

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2011, 05:54:00 AM »
I'm tired of this lame excuse that legging takes skill. Maybe for the sniper at 600m but every legging ive had is by a LBX demo that puts two bursts into my legs. Cronic leggers do not use lasers they take out weapons with high RoF or big burst damage. And really, how many leggings have you seen standing still. I for one have seen zero, the legging that occurs always is from a mech moving around.

Why are you that close to a LBX Demo? That asset is the king of <300 meters next to the Beatstick.

What I think is happening is you're so close to the Demo that they can't hit anything but the legs. The tank would have cored you otherwise. If the demo is aiming for the legs, they're doing it wrong, take advantage of it. Keep firing and finish them off (you did do damage to them right?). Before you get cored, bail out and pop him with C8 and SRM. Buy a new mech (assuming this is TC and you just capped the base) with your cbills you got for destroying the demo and carry on. If you didn't get enough damage in, then you were outplayed. The demo driver spread out his/her damage amongst the sides... or you just missed too much or accidently hit the turret too much rather then a quadrant. Respawn and try again. It happens.

I'm curious as to if you think any aspect of this game *isn't* flawless, at least in a manner you can't justify with jaw-droppingly ridiculous mental gymnastics.

VTOL's currently. Though that was a goof on the Dev's part that they are fixing.

Sorry, I didn't know that getting within 300 meters of dual LBX20s in a 3v1 was the thing to do.

Sorry, I didn't know that practical knowledge of fog of war, how combat works, map design, objective-based gameplay, playstyles that don't involve Gauss or ERLBL boating, and you know, the fact that Demolishers are not slow wasn't common knowledge. Apparently I was misinformed.

I don't *want* mechs to get within my ATM range, but it fapping happens. No one person can control what happens in this game, and to say something as mind-bendingly moronic as 'lol its so EZ just stay 300m away' is suggestive that you simply "don't get it" (especially since 300-400m is actually pretty respectable range). Easy to say if you're a camper and you only play Death Valley.

Irony is, I really don't have a problem with the LBX Demo legging me (any more than I still have a problem with Demos being the de-facto noob ride of choice still), I just read your argument that "If you get within 300m of a demo you DESERVE TO AUTOMATICALLY DIE" was, as all such arguments go, really really dumb.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 06:02:03 AM by Frostiken »

Offline Taemien

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2011, 06:45:50 AM »
Just because shit happens (a Demo or some other close range monstrosity catches you off guard when you're using ATMs or any minimum ranged weapon) doesn't warrant a nerf or a mechanics change.

If you get snuck up on, you got outplayed, plain and simple. It happens to all of us.

And I love how these terms get thrown around like campers, LRM spammers, and all that. Its almost like you think the Dev's purposely put those weapons into the game just so you have people to ridicule so you can feel superior in some odd way by not using them. Sorry to burst your bubble but everything has a purpose.

Getting reamed by LRMs? Take cover. Got a demo in a base, bomb or LT it, or at least use long range weaponry to soften them up before going in. Learn to freaking adapt to the game rather then running to the forums to bitch and whine like a middle schooler.

I've seen you all play in the game, you guys typically take the same mechs over and over. And when you get countered by something like a Longtom, Arrow IV, LRMs, Firebombs, Legging and now Gauss Rifles apparently. You want to come to the forums and whine to the devs for changes. When that bitching falls on deaf ears you resort to trying to make all that sound dishonorable, cheap, or noobish in hopes that you guilt trip the community into fighting on your narrow terms.

Sorry, it ain't happening.

Offline Nitro_R

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2011, 07:15:23 AM »
Legging discourages new players from continuing to play.
So it is bad for the community which is trying to grow.

Offline Taemien

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2011, 07:27:05 AM »
Legging discourages new players from continuing to play.
So it is bad for the community which is trying to grow.

I just asked my friend, who goes by the callsign Tantrasil (who's new and sucks at piloting mechs in MWLL) if he would get discouraged if he got legged. He said no.

Alright lets take it this direction. Who's out there legging over and over? I want to know so I can see it happen. I've been playing on and off all day today inbetween classes and I haven't seen anyone get legged yet. Haven't been legged yet either.

I find it ironic that the units (can't say clans, cause it ain't just clans) that hate legging so much, are the same ones with members that I have been legged by in the past, especially in 0.1.0 and 0.2.0. Before you all come to the forums with this crusade against "unsportsmanlike" behavior, check your own. The hypocrisy is fapping amazing.

Offline Frostiken

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2011, 07:38:59 AM »


The only thing I got out of your post is that you think it's fine that the only counter to a Demolisher inside a CP is to run away, quit playing ground units altogether, or sell your mech, pool together over 100k CBills, get a teammate and put him in a C3 mech, roll around until you're in range, and then try to hit him. Can I get a mech that's so powerful the only way to beat it is to uninstall the game? That's pretty much the next step.

I'm glad to see that Demos at least have taken over Aerospace with the absurd things required to beat them, namely that a single noob in a 70k asset is "only countered" by the other team investing in high amounts of teamwork to buy an incredibly expensive artillery unit who has to work together with a teammate. All because of one guy rolling around with his finger in his nose.

Like I said, I don't really have a problem with being legged, or legging. I just found your arguments completely invalid and rather absurd. Devil's Advocate and all that.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 07:50:17 AM by Frostiken »

Offline Taemien

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2011, 07:49:44 AM »
Umm an Owens works guy. Oh snap, we'll need to buff the Demo now. Can't have a sub 49k asset take on a 71k+ asset! That's preposterous!

Dude seriously, I'm not going to list every unit that can successfully take on a Demolisher and how to do it. Figure it out on your own like the rest of us.

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2011, 05:36:30 PM »
Legging discourages new players from continuing to play.
So it is bad for the community which is trying to grow.

I just asked my friend, who goes by the callsign Tantrasil (who's new and sucks at piloting mechs in MWLL) if he would get discouraged if he got legged. He said no.

So your new to the game friend was asked the question after never having been legged? ROFL

Offline Stahlseele

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Re: A different approach to cut back on legging.
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2011, 07:03:05 PM »
OK . . i have been with this mod since 0.1.0 . .
I got legged EXACTLY ONCE in all that time . . .
I don't see legged Mechs very often.
Neither on my, nor on another team.
Wednesday i saw my 2nd legged mech ever.
And i haven't seen one since then eiter.
'any kind of discussion of randomness ALWAYS WILL EQUATE to being able to critically hit a mech's reactor by firing a micro beam laser while facing 80 degrees to the side, shooting the ground, which would cause a random explosion which would randomly crit his entire team's reactors which would randomly cause the server itself to explode which would randomly generate a strange quark which would randomly hit the earth and randomly randomness randomfapp the shit fapp random!'
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