Amount of heatsinks

[-SM-SUCKER]

I am not sure where to put this, but how many heat sinks are actually implemented?
I remember that each mech has at least 10 of them coming with the reactor. So if one of my additional heatsinks is destroyed, the overall effectiveness to dissipate heat should not be lowered very much.
But in the game this seems to be different. As soon as I hear "Heat sink damaged" the temperature wont go down nearly as fast as before. In fact almost nothing happens.
So here I am asking: How many heatsinks does my mech actually have in the game?

[(TLL)Siilk]

 As far as I know, heat sink damage in 0.4.X only comes from overheat, so all the heat sinks across the mech are damaged simultaneously, resulting in a drastic heat dissipation reduction.

[~SJ~MausGMR]

Ok guys I've run through some tests again to see if heatsink values and the way it works have changed since 0.32

Just to let everyone know, these numbers are as exact as I could get from playing the game itself and using an empty server running test of strength as a test bed to put the assets in the game and test them there. Some of the higher numbers may be a degree or two out, but you get the idea of heatsink values from these following tests. The test was done by shooting weapons to get heat up to redline lever (when it gives shutdown warnings) and then recording the rate of cooling the mech is achieving.


BASELINE REACTOR HEATSINK TEST
41 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Vulture C (0 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline heat levels
31 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Vulture C (0 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline heat levels
41 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Mauler E (0 extra heatsinks) at redline heat levels
31 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Mauler E (0 extra heatsinks) at redline heat levels
41 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Bushwacker C (0 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline heat levels
31 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Bushwacker C (0 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline heat levels

ADDITIONAL HEATSINK TEST
49 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Vulture Prime (1 extra DUAL heatsink) at redline levels - 8 cooling per heat sink
45 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Warhammer E (1 extra  heatsink) at redline levels - 4 cooling per heat sink
49 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Mauler C (1 extra DUAL heatsink) at redline levels - 8 cooling per heat sink

HIGH NUMBERS OF ADDITIONAL HEATSINKS TEST
104 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Loki D (10 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline heat levels - abnormality, 6.05 cooling per sink
73 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Loki D (10 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline heat levels - abnormality
124 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Awesome D (10 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline levels - 8.3 cooling per extra heat sink
92 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Awesome D (10 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline level -
145 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Novacat A (13 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline levels - 8 cooling per extra heat sink
108 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Novacat A (13 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline levels
145 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Madcat D (13 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline levels - 8 cooling per extra heat sink
108 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Madcat D (13 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline levels

INNER SPHERE STANDARD HEATSINK VALUE TESTS
82 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Awesome A (10 extra heatsinks) at redline level -4.1 cooling per extra heat sink
62 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Awesome A (10 extra heatsinks) at redline level
82 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Thanatos Prime (10 extra heatsinks) at redline level - 4.1 cooling per extra heat sink
62 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Thanatos Prime (10 extra heatsinks) at redline level

LOKI BASELINE CHASSIS TEST
41 degrees cooling per second whilst standing Loki E (0 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline heat levels
31 degrees cooling per second whilst at 100% speed Loki E (0 extra DUAL heatsinks) at redline heat levels



To conclude:
Whilst moving at 100% throttle, heatsinks operate around 25-30% less effectively
Both inner sphere and clan mechs have exactly the same type and number of base engine heatsinks, which is 10 STANDARD heatsinks.
Standard heatsinks cool 4 heat per second when working at 100% capacity.
Dual heatsinks cool 8-8.3 heat per second when working at 100% capacity.
Heatsinks efficiency levels depends on the heat of the mech, the hotter the mech is, the faster it bleeds heat.
The Loki D does not seem to fit into the equation properly, this may be to do with a listing error on the number of heat sinks in the buy menu.
Certain prime variants (namely clan) are effectively 5 DHS down because of the standardisation of the engine heatsinks, this in turn may be the reason for a number of these variants to be considered 'too hot to handle'.
Jump jetting has the same effect as standing still on cooling rates.

I have however also noticed that cooling efficiency drops often if heat goes much over the red line, and this often is without any message about heat sinks being damaged. Once this state of inefficient cooling is reached, it remains until, I believe, a shutdown is made. However i'm not 100% on the facts of this but there is a definite link between overall cooling efficiency and pushing your heat above the red line.

This post is by no means an attempt at finger pointing or anything a long those lines, it is just a clear statement of fact based on the information I have obtained in game.

[[CW] Lictor]

MausGMR let me point you over to something interesting from this thread. . . that it looks like you missed

http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/topic,12359.60.html

The main issue with the vulture prime is it's down 5 double heat sinks in comparison to it's cannon variant.

This is because MWLL engine heatsinks are a flat standard 10 single heatsinks, between both clan and IS mechs, but additional heatsinks are either single or double based on chassis type.

The MWLL Vulture Prime gets 11 heatsinks, 10 in the engine + 1 additional; and they are doubles.  All Clan assets get DHS (except Huit) and they pay for them in C-Bills cost.

Fact is the vulture prime has less heatsinks and more weapons than the cougar prime, and even that thing struggles with heat management. Overall I find the vulture prime to be an ineffective mech for it's cost, and common place in the cannon setting. With the heat sink adjustments, it could probably be a reasonable amount more competitive.

The Cougar does have more (and still DHS) but it has fewer and smaller weapons, and it's a Light.  What are we even comparing here?

[-SM-SUCKER]

As far as I know, heat sink damage in 0.4.X only comes from overheat, so all the heat sinks across the mech are damaged simultaneously, resulting in a drastic heat dissipation reduction.

Oh, I see. Too bad, I was under the impression that critical hits were implemented.
If it is in fact like you say, wouldn't it be nicer to not have all heat sinks killed at once? Kill them one after another, please.

[~SJ~MausGMR]

Ok, so Leer said they've got doubles. That's fine, but I went ahead and tested things anyway.

The numbers there quite clearly show they do not have 10 double heat sinks.

Feel free to test it yourself.

[Toth]

Base heatsinks are not doubles, because when we tested that a long time ago, it was impossible to balance. It was just too much up front cooling. So to be honest thats one area of CBT I simply find pure bullshit. Double the space but same tonnage, yet somehow fits into the same class of engine. That being said, you do not pay double for those heatsinks, the CBill cost is only doubled on the additional.

Also heat sink damage is a cooling modifier rate based on a pool of hitpoints.  The more heatsinks you have the more points in the pool. So there are 3 stages:

Heatsinks Damaged
Heatsinks Critical
Heatsinks Destoryed

These occur at 75%, 50%, and 25%. 25% is the lowest you can go, so you still get a minimum of 25% of your cooling rate. They are fully repairable at a base.

[-AAA-]

Nothing to add to the discussion, but +karma to Maus for actually doing in-game research to make a relatively informed post.  It's a breath of fresh air.

Edit: Before anyone else asks, will there be any visual indicator for heatsink "health"?   

[Planedev]

Its cool to hav eheat sink damage, but too bad you cann shoot the heatsinks off an enemy mech, I remember the time when in the original mech warrior, my warhammer was badly damage and the heat just kept going up no matter what I did.

[HAARP]

Critical hit: heat sink.

Base heatsinks are not doubles, because when we tested that a long time ago, it was impossible to balance. It was just too much up front cooling.

Nothing wrong with non-linear heat dissipation at all sirs, no, not at all

So to be honest thats one area of CBT I simply find pure bullshit. Double the space but same tonnage, yet somehow fits into the same class of engine.

I totally agree. Engines being able to dissipate 20 heat points is what opened the door to many of the insane heat-heavy designs these days. If they had kept that to 10, we would have a much saner variant landscape these days.
But that's the way it is, and by nerfing engines to 10 single sinks you have opened another big can of worms as is obvious by the uselessness of many Primes. :<

[KingLeerUK]

But that's the way it is, and by nerfing engines to 10 single sinks you have opened another big can of worms as is obvious by the uselessness of many Primes. :<

Such is your opinion, but keeping the base heatsinks to singles makes balancing the vehicles a lot easier and avoids the energy boating issues that have plagued Clan vehicles in other MW games.
 
You are within your rights to question it, but at some point you must accept this because it is not going to change.

[Rally]

Such is your opinion, but keeping the base heatsinks to singles makes balancing the vehicles a lot easier and avoids the energy boating issues that have plagued Clan vehicles in other MW games.
 
You are within your rights to question it, but at some point you must accept this because it is not going to change.

So you're saying heatsinks will stay and you'll change the Prime Variants instead and make them more useful in the future? That would be awesome!

[Profane Arbiter]

Also heat sink damage is a cooling modifier rate based on a pool of hitpoints.  The more heatsinks you have the more points in the pool. So there are 3 stages:

Heatsinks Damaged
Heatsinks Critical
Heatsinks Destoryed

These occur at 70%, 50%, and 25%. 25% is the lowest you can go, so you still get a minimum of 25% of your cooling rate. They are fully repairable at a base.

Could I get a little clarification on when heatsinks become damaged exactly. I heard someone say that you've damaged them starting the very first time you hear "heat level critical." That doesn't seem right though. There are some variants that will redline with a single alpha. Is that to say that after going over redline only for a split second, and hearing that warning that I'm now instantly reduced to 70% of my cooling efficiency?

[~SJ~MausGMR]

Also heat sink damage is a cooling modifier rate based on a pool of hitpoints.  The more heatsinks you have the more points in the pool. So there are 3 stages:

Heatsinks Damaged
Heatsinks Critical
Heatsinks Destoryed

These occur at 70%, 50%, and 25%. 25% is the lowest you can go, so you still get a minimum of 25% of your cooling rate. They are fully repairable at a base.

Could I get a little clarification on when heatsinks become damaged exactly. I heard someone say that you've damaged them starting the very first time you hear "heat level critical." That doesn't seem right though. There are some variants that will redline with a single alpha. Is that to say that after going over redline only for a split second, and hearing that warning that I'm now instantly reduced to 70% of my cooling efficiency?

During my tests I found that heat efficiency got less when heat went about 50% over red line, no hard facts though just a rough concept.

[KingLeerUK]

Heatsinks start taking damage when you breach the critical line.  You will continue to take damage so long as the vehicle stays over that threshold, even if you are dumping coolant.