This is a Beta...

[Taemien]

There's been a lot of heated discussions as of late. But there's been a few keypoints that are being missed. Points that shouldn't be missed or forgotten.

First point is as the title says, this is a Beta. Its a work in progress. We're not playing MWLL, we're testing it out, helping to polish it. This means there's going to be bugs. If we don't play it and give constructive feedback it won't get better. If a change happens and you give up on the mod, how could it get better? What were you here for to begin with?

This brings me to my second point. MWLL is not World of Warcraft or <insert other popular online retail game here>. Its free, always will be, and the developers will not be making any sort of profit from it other then expanding their portfolios. This sudden rush of self-entitlement has got to stop and stop now. It is freaking rediculous how players will come into these forums and insult the work that the devs put in. Its one thing to say "hey, I don't think this is working right," but players have been downright rude and disgusting by saying things like, "This is broke, I quit," or "If you don't fix this, I'm gone." These players have the audacity to come in here and Threaten the developers?

I'm no perfect angel on these forums by any means. But at least I have the common decency to show the host a bit of respect. They have provided a game for us to play that has surpassed anything in the retail portion and yet some of you take a shit on them regardless. There's been many long hours put into the development of this project by a good number of talented individuals.

Just remember that before you post, these people don't owe you anything. You're here to help them with this work in progress. Things aren't going to work. Things are gonna break. Its a Beta, an unfinished product, and one that is free.

I do have to give them credit for their patience. If it were me that admin'd these forums, there'd been some retribution handed down in the form of kicks and bans. But I guess that sort of patience comes with coding a project as large and dynamic as this.

[[CW] Lictor]

+1

[Sir Tahn Maihem]

+2

[Rally]

Ok, you're mad. But just hypothetically, what if I don't like a recent feature or change so much that it's enough to make me stop playing MWLL.

Am I not allowed to have such an opinion or am I not allowed to say raw but instead cover it up with sweet words?

[Ingrater]

You are allowed to have such an opinion. But you have to think about the people on the other side of this mod. I stopped reading large portions of this forum, because every time I read them, I don't want to work on the mod any more.

[Toth]

Thank you this comment is much appreciated. As Ingrater said, just having a generally negative attitude about things on a project like this can't do anything but harm it. Really. So you can have your opinion, you can express it as long as its not a personal attack, but if the general attitude is "This change sucked balls, I'm leaving" then yeah its going to have a negative effect. Not because we necessarily think "This change was wonderful, you just don't get it". More like "This change is an experiment, it might be buggy, we expect you to be aware of that and trust us based on our past history that in the end it will work out". So yeah feedback, critical or supportive is welcome. Negativity and derision, not so much.

[«اك§» Trooper_Thorn]

My two cents for what is worth. With out these guys and MekTek BT/MW would have been a long dead software title. The mooks who keep bringing out crap like WoW ect would have left MW/BT dead and buried never to be seen again. This gang has worked damn hard and accomplished a hell of a lot and it is a work in progress. Yes, you can and should give constructive criticism not flame them, that just makes you a whiner putz blathering on about picking up your marbles and running home to mommy, "Get a friggen life." The people here are diehard fans of BT/MW and with what is going on likely to be the best game in town for some time and if you quit the whining and start helping them with constructive criticism and helpful suggestions then it can and will improve the game for all of us. But you need to give them time, this is a labor of love for them and with their skill and talent they could be doing something else that would earn them the proper respect and monetary reward they so richly deserve not the heartache and grief some tools give them. So if you can not be civil or respectful and give constructive thoughts, otherwise go take a shower and cool off! ( redacted to reduce flamage) 

[~SJ~MausGMR]

More the reason to express when people don't like a change, and express it in detail, don't you think toth? It sucks being told that the thing you spent all that time working at isn't to people's liking, but the fact of the matter is, if you as dev's want honest opinions from people about the game and the direction it's heading, then the kinds of posts highlighted here are going to continue.

On the flip side, this entire community could be just made up of yes men, and more than likely get a final product that doesn't live up to the potential we all know it can reach.

The reason people are so passionate and vocal about issues is because they love this mod so much. It's just a shame that such things are often not expressed, and words spoken instead get taken badly, rather than positively.

[Toth]

More the reason to express when people don't like a change, and express it in detail, don't you think toth? It sucks being told that the thing you spent all that time working at isn't to people's liking, but the fact of the matter is, if you as dev's want honest opinions from people about the game and the direction it's heading, then the kinds of posts highlighted here are going to continue.

On the flip side, this entire community could be just made up of yes men, and more than likely get a final product that doesn't live up to the potential we all know it can reach.

The reason people are so passionate and vocal about issues is because they love this mod so much. It's just a shame that such things are often not expressed, and words spoken instead get taken badly, rather than positively.

But the problem with this, is the opinions that are often formed make very large assumptions. They know nothing about what is happening under the hood or what was intended. Even when WE post this information, it often gets ignored and people just go on assuming what they want anyways. What I'm asking for is a basic starting assumption that "These guys know what they are doing, but they don't have enough time to test everything. So I can do this for them. If it simply doesn't work I can express that and explain why, while remaining a bit reserved and assuming I may not have the whole picture". Often what I'm seeing of late is more of "This sucks why the fapp did you change it". These two approaches are not the same, and I guarantee the second has no more detail than the first. In fact it has basically none.

[-AAA-]

I just hope the dev team realizes that for each person that doesn't understand how "critical feedback" does not mean "being a dick", there's ten other players in-game enjoying the hell out of mod. 

As Maus said, the reason a lot of people get so upset is because they love the mod that freakin' much.  The fact that they're losing control and turning into children is a testament to their devotion.  Still, when your short-sighted negativity makes the creators of this little jewel you love so much want to stop working on it; it's time to knock it off and start acting like an adult - be appreciative that you have a dev team that actually reads your drivel, and is human enough to be affected by it.  You can show that appreciation by not being a prick when you offer feedback.

[Virt]

I agree with everything that's been said so far in this thread.   (In summary, that we should be thankful and supportive, but also, that people should be able to make constructive criticism in a spirit of helping the devs make the mod even better.)

I just hope the devs don't take any constructive criticism personally.    I've been a front person for a couple of high profile projects, so I know what it's like to have the thing you lavished your time and creativity on described in anything less than glowing terms.

However, I learned after a while that people are far more likely to criticise something than praise something.    It's human nature.   So, in an internet forum, you tend to get a predominance of 'criticism' and the silent majority of people who are happy with things tend not to post that.    It can create a skewed perspective of the user base's real feelings.

But the absolute worst thing that can happen (and it did happen to me once) is when the project leaders get personally upset, circle the wagons, and start to dismiss all criticism out of hand.    It's much healthier if the project team be a bit thick-skinned, keep pursuing their vision, understand they've got a lot of silent supporters, and also, consider the criticism and feedback objectively as a way of bettering the project.

Incidentally, the above experiences are why I so frequently thank the devs in this forum , on Facebook etc.   I know how easy it is for them to get discouraged.    I hope that that above causes a few more people to more frequently express their thanks for the devs' hard work and successes.

[LordHack]

It isn't so much that they criticize "it", it is that they personalize their game experience.  This is natural.  But, as has been said, it's best to count to 10 before you unload because your own personalization of the mod conflicts with the reality of the mod that the devs present.

The devs allow us all an opportunity to wield a chisel on their work.  They don't need and are not offering us a sledgehammer.

[(TLL) Heretic]

The majority are morons in all societies historical or current, why should this Community be any different?  So having to remind some folks that this is a beta is a necessity, the my-way-or-I-walk folks are just precious queens, and that sort of behaviour should not be encouraged IMO

I find that around 10% of the folks I meet are actually decent and upstanding folks, 10% of those I meet are downright shits, and the rest are in the middle-ground someplace.  It would be nice to not have to read idiotic threads like the "Fixing things" thread, but odds are your going to get this sort of thing happening with each release.

The important thing is not to let it grind you down. 

[Profane Arbiter]

"critical feedback" does not mean "being a dick"

QFT

I think it's sometimes ok to make sure it's brought across that you feel strongly about an issue, rather than a "well it would be nice" kinda thing, but to rage out isn't helping. It's just turning the people who are responsible for helping you against you.

[Dubious]

The "change xx or I walk" is a WoW mentality people develop when paying a monthly fee to game.  Its retarded in that setting and just ridiculous in the setting of MWLL.