About variants that have both PPC's and NARC...

[~SJ~{CDT} Ro0t]

Considering the fact that PPC removes NARC, it doesn't really make sense to equip both PPC and NARC on the same variant now does it? However, it's the case for some variants, and I think this should be changed.

Your thoughts?

[Snow Gibbon]

Shoot the NARC at one target and fire the PPCs at another. Problem solved. If there's only one target use the PPCs and wait till help arrives. If your in a NARC capable mech you're not supposed to be in one - on - one combat in the first place.

[KingLeerUK]

The NARC is effective out beyond the range of PPCs, so there may be opportunities to apply it to stationary enemies and then let the missile love fly, especially for ELRMs.
 
Also, who says you can't fire your missiles with lock, fire your PPCs, hit the target with a NARC and turn away from it (or lose it behind trees) and then youre missiles are ready to fire again.
 
For as little as the NARC weighs and costs, it is generally more advantageous to have it than to replace it with anything else.

[~SJ~{CDT} Ro0t]

The NARC is effective out beyond the range of PPCs, so there may be opportunities to apply it to stationary enemies and then let the missile love fly, especially for ELRMs.
 
Also, who says you can't fire your missiles with lock, fire your PPCs, hit the target with a NARC and turn away from it (or lose it behind trees) and then youre missiles are ready to fire again.
 
For as little as the NARC weighs and costs, it is generally more advantageous to have it than to replace it with anything else.

I completely disagree with this.

Whenever I decide to NARC a target, it's as much for myself (if I have missiles) than it is for my teammates. Normally, I also want to contribute in the destruction of said target, so that means I have to be able to do maximum DPS on it, AND also keep the NARC up for my teammates to assist with missiles, or LT.

Currently (the wiki is outdated and I'm at work so I don't remember which variant it is) the variants which I refer to are Light mechs, and have few weapons to begin with. If all I have is PPCs and 1 LRM10 for example, using either one individually won't give me much DPS. If I NARC a target, then the only option I have left if I want to keep the NARC up is to use my tiny bitty LRM10... That is not really efficient!

I think this combo simply makes the variant a much less effective one because it can't use all of its weapons on the same targets while the NARC is up because the PPC removes it.

Also, most [good] players won't just stand still in the open at 800m to fire PPC's and keep a missile lock on over a target because that's how they'll get killed. Most [good] players will rather hide behind cover and pop in and out to PPC a target, and (logically) fire their missiles around their cover using their NARC. However, in the case where your primary weapons are PPCs, that just can't work.

The solution is simple... Change the NARC for something else (i.e. SRM4), or change the PPC to something else (i.e. another energy weapon that does same type of DPS with same range), or remove the NARC completely and add a free ton for LRM ammo instead...

[7.[WD]Ragor]

I love the Master&Commander.
Narcing that annoying toad which is circling me (hmm, suddenly he seems to be busy with something else instead of shooting me) and fight his bigger brother in the background with the ERPPCs and the LRM15s with direct lock.
Or other way round, narc someone in the background and fire the LRM as fast as they reload and fight someone else with the ERPPCs.

*stuff*

Edit:
thoughts on the Atlas E

The more I think about it the more I like the concept of a mech being able to fight several (at least two) targets the same time.
Ok, changing the ERPPCs to something else would work as well... but... would make the E less spicy, someway boring. The combination makes it interesting. You have to think about when to use which weapon, you must decide who you narc and who you gonna fight directly. On a single target on long range I line up and fire my ERPPCs while getting the lock, firing the LRMs and then the narc to be able to fire 4 salvos instead of the usual 3 until the narc disappears.


And I recently found out to stay in cover while mechs cools down from the ppc firing and use your LRMs on your narc you fired when you went in cover.

[~SJ~{CDT} Ro0t]

I love the Master&Commander.
Narcing that annoying toad which is circling me (hmm, suddenly he seems to be busy with something else instead of shooting me) and fight his bigger brother in the background with the ERPPCs and the LRM15s with direct lock.
Or other way round, narc someone in the background and fire the LRM as fast as they reload and fight someone else with the ERPPCs.

*stuff*

Edit:
thoughts on the Atlas E

The more I think about it the more I like the concept of a mech being able to fight several (at least two) targets the same time.
Ok, changing the ERPPCs to something else would work as well... but... would make the E less spicy, someway boring. The combination makes it interesting. You have to think about when to use which weapon, you must decide who you narc and who you gonna fight directly. On a single target on long range I line up and fire my ERPPCs while getting the lock, firing the LRMs and then the narc to be able to fire 4 salvos instead of the usual 3 until the narc disappears.


And I recently found out to stay in cover while mechs cools down from the ppc firing and use your LRMs on your narc you fired when you went in cover.

An Atlas is able to do that... Lighter mechs wouldn't be as effective (barely noticeable actually) if they don't combine all their weapons on the same target.

What you explain makes sense and is a possible use of this setup, but doesn't apply as well to all mech classes... that's the problem.

I still think the variant doesn't make sense though...

[Stahlseele]

shot PPC first, THEN narc?

[DFDelta]

I just checked the Wiki because I could not remember any variants beside the Atlas M&C that were actually combining NARC and PPCs, and acording to the Wiki there are none.

So this disussion is kinda... nonsensical.



To add something on topic:
I would not care if any variants had both on them, I play pretty much any NARC capable mech the same way.
I pick the target I want to shoot at before entering combat, most likely something medium or heavy already fighting and damaged. Then I rush in, dump all my other weaponfire into him, dumbfire a NARC into the biggest other target I see (using my eyes, not my radar), dump another reload of conventional weapons into my first target, and then GTFO. Works well in a Raven and works in a Loki.

That has several advantages.
- The NARCed target does not gain any advance warning in form of damage. ("hey, that little raven with the huge NARC on its side just shot me, maybe it NARCed me, too, better head for cover")
- The mech I actually attack might freak out, thinking I NARCed him, too. (Don't laugh, I have actually seen people abort combat and head for cover after noticing that I am concentrating my weapons on them, most likely thinking I have also dumped a NARC onto them)
- I am not wasting reload time/heat/ammo on a target that will be out of the fight anyways soon. I only NARC if I know that we have a good amount of missile artillery waiting for a target, and that means that anything I NARC will soon be engulfed in almost a hundred (E)LRMs and/or half a dozen Arrows.
By the time the NARC runs out of energy the target will be out of the fight, one way or the other.

[~SJ~{CDT} Ro0t]

I just checked the Wiki because I could not remember any variants beside the Atlas M&C that were actually combining NARC and PPCs, and acording to the Wiki there are none.

So this disussion is kinda... nonsensical.



To add something on topic:
I would not care if any variants had both on them, I play pretty much any NARC capable mech the same way.
I pick the target I want to shoot at before entering combat, most likely something medium or heavy already fighting and damaged. Then I rush in, dump all my other weaponfire into him, dumbfire a NARC into the biggest other target I see (using my eyes, not my radar), dump another reload of conventional weapons into my first target, and then GTFO. Works well in a Raven and works in a Loki.

That has several advantages.
- The NARCed target does not gain any advance warning in form of damage. ("hey, that little raven with the huge NARC on its side just shot me, maybe it NARCed me, too, better head for cover")
- The mech I actually attack might freak out, thinking I NARCed him, too. (Don't laugh, I have actually seen people abort combat and head for cover after noticing that I am concentrating my weapons on them, most likely thinking I have also dumped a NARC onto them)
- I am not wasting reload time/heat/ammo on a target that will be out of the fight anyways soon. I only NARC if I know that we have a good amount of missile artillery waiting for a target, and that means that anything I NARC will soon be engulfed in almost a hundred (E)LRMs and/or half a dozen Arrows.
By the time the NARC runs out of energy the target will be out of the fight, one way or the other.

Humm you're right... (although the wiki is extremely outdated for variant info) but I could have sworn there was a light mech variant with that setup in one of the 0.4.x builds though as I rarely play the Atlas E... I must have hallucinated then.

[Warhammer WHM-6R]

Humm you're right... (although the wiki is extremely outdated for variant info) but I could have sworn there was a light mech variant with that setup in one of the 0.4.x builds though as I rarely play the Atlas E... I must have hallucinated then.

You are not hallucinating because there was a Scat with NARCs, ATM6 and a PPC. See my thread about it. I miss it and want it back
It was great

[KorJax]

I like it (in the case of Atlas Master & Commander).

I don't think the point of command/narcing mechs is to specifically deal all the damage yourself and get a high kill score. Command class mechs are all about supporting your team and dealing damage across the whole enemy team, not nessicarily getting the most kills. And if you think it's impossible to get a good score/rank doing that, think again - I've topped scoreboards numerous times having a "damage/support" focused playstyle instead of focusing on kills.

What I do with that atlas varient is to start by softening with PPC's and LRM's (though watch it.. I believe in my experience as long as a vehicle is under the "PPC EMP" effect, all narcs will not work), and then once the PPC effect wears off on the target I narc it and move onto the next one.

Or what I do, is narc one target, then use PPC's on another target. My missiles attack the Narc'd one, while my PPC's attack a different target.

[IG142]

I haven't used the Atlas E yet, but I can attest that spreading fire between multiple targets can be effective at times. It doesn't kill any one enemy as fast, but it works better for suppression. In an Awesome, for example, chainfiring your PPCs at every enemy in sight shakes them up fairly well. In lengthy line battles where neither side wants to commit, you can sometimes scare groups of enemies into pulling back 3-4 at a time, gaining your team some good ground.

[Cygma]

(although the wiki is extremely outdated for variant info)

Euh, no. The info-boxes are up-to-date for 0.4.3 for IS assets and for 0.4.4 for Clan assets. Afterwards there wasn't really that much change.

[[CW]Outlaw]

Loki B, PPC problem solved, and given the electronics package probably THE best Command mech in the game.

[Warhammer WHM-6R]

I do not agree. It has too little armor to warrent the attention it attracts on the battlefield. It also does not have weapons that make any sense. I will take a raven over it any day.