Dragon Age 2

[[IPA] Thalamus]

Anyone played the demo yet?


I did it tonight and I think it will be nice.


Combat and management seem to have a better flow now. But combat itself is a bit more rushed. It is still as tactical as before, but I think we will get a lot more waves of cannonfodder instead of encounters with a couple of well-armed enemies. Redundancies in the skill tree and "useless" skills have either been merged or are gone. Good riddance, I say - the skilltree that is left still leaves room for very different characters, so no loss here.

The interface is cleaner and more streamlined; makes things a bit easier. You can't zoom as much out of the scene as in DA1, so no rel 'tactics-view'.

Characters and environmental graphics are nice. I've recognized some cheesy hair styles from DA1, but the rest of the characters (face, body, clothing) look much better, that old witch Flemeth now really kicks ass.
The landscapes are a bit sterile at times, though. The lighting, on the other hand, really supports the overall mood and immersion. The graphics really shine in the cities, when the lighting combines with the impressive architecture. On a side note, I think the artists seem to to like 30's graphical design and architecture (which you can sometimes see in old buildings from the fascist era in Germany & Italy, and on written publications from that time). It fits. 

German dubbing sucks, I'll get the English version (why can't they do the dub properly). Dialogues itself seem to have improved a bit, on the other hand. Finally your character is able to voice his / her opinion. That is a big improvement compared to DA1, because the only thing you could do was clicking on a text option. And (I've tried it out) most of them led to the same responses, so that was kinda lame. Voiced answers give you at least the illusion of some individuality in dialogues.



So, summary: seems to be a nice game. If the reviews don't mention any horrible things, I think I'll grab it this year.

[=KoS= Tripod]

the first one (IMO) looked painfully nerdy

the fact that all of my nerdy friends loved the shit out of it confirms this (not that them liking it really means anything, but hearing them talk about it made it sound a bit like something I wouldn't really enjoy) Sometimes the "nerd level" of a good game can hurt my enjoyment (oblivion and Dawn of war have this effect a little too, as well as Halo and Mech Warrior to a lesser extent even though all of those games are fun as hell)

The new one seems a lot more bearable from the vids and screenies I've seen, so I might try the demo

[Iron Brain]

the first one (IMO) looked painfully nerdy

the fact that all of my nerdy friends loved the shit out of it confirms this (not that them liking it really means anything, but hearing them talk about it made it sound a bit like something I wouldn't really enjoy) Sometimes the "nerd level" of a good game can hurt my enjoyment (oblivion and Dawn of war have this effect a little too, as well as Halo and Mech Warrior to a lesser extent even though all of those games are fun as hell)

The new one seems a lot more bearable from the vids and screenies I've seen, so I might try the demo

You know people like you really kind of piss me off some times. You are an active poster on video game forums and yet you call other people to nerdy? Im not trying to start shit with you but lets be real here for a sek. Look around you, this is a fapping Mech Warrior game forum. Battle Tech players are fatter and stinkier than any DD players ive ever meet. Get over your self.

Any way, i was able to get the demo off Steam tonight at 1.5MBs after being locked out of their official web site because i put an age in the splash page that was below 18 and they lock out my IP. w/e. Im getting the Shogun2 demo now and once thats doen ill install them and defrag before playing.

Im really excited to see this game. I havent been fallowing it lately but i was really put off when i heard they were making it more for the consoles this time. The orig DA if a little boring was one of the few remaining reasons to be a hard core PC gamer. The orig game really suffered fro ma few small game design issue that made the entire thing boring. Other parts of the game were just amazing. This should be interesting.

[Askis]

I've played the demo and I'm not sure I like it
That is if the demo is any indication...
With the fights consisting of lots of smaller enemies and no overhead view, aiming the AOE abilities, especially trying to hit moving enemies with them, is a lot harder.
Not sure how useful dual wield Rogues are in those fights, I'm not even sure they still get a damage bonus for backstabs >_>

The "streamlined" ability trees seem to work fine for Warriors and Rogues, but Mages got gimped somewhat...
Unless there are additional trees that have been totally removed from the demo, much of the Mages' variety has been lost.
I also would like to know what the level cap is, if it's too low making highly specialized will probably a necessity (except on the low difficulty settings )

Graphics wise I do like most of it, obviously I don't know how other characters look like, but I thought the Flemeth redesign was a bit much, also the textures, oh god the textures
I really hope the PC version get's a high-res texture mod at some point.

Oh yeah, no more silent protagonist, a huge plus in my book^^

Overall, I'm probably going to buy it, not sure if I'll do it right on release though...

[=KoS= Tripod]

Dude, Shogun 2 demo is out?

fapp YES!
(I suck balls at all of the total war games but love them anyways )

Also I got no problems with nerds. I don't use nerd as an insult, just a "lifestyle" I'm not really into. Talking on forums isn't really "nerdy" anyway, so I don't really see your point there

[=KoS= Eldragon]

tried downloading the Demo for a good 4 hours last night. never managed to complete it. connection kept getting reset by host. Their servers are probably swamped.

I pre-ordered DA2 anyway, because I loved DA:O, so I'm willing to give it a fair shake. But I'm very suspicious of the changes they made for DA2. Especially because I hated the changes they did for Mass Effect 2. For me ME2 wasn't an RPG but an action game with an excellent story, but otherwise uninteresting combat and character classes.

We already know class choices in DA2 got gimped in a serious way. Their general design philosophy was to make every class unique, and fill a specific role, but this was done at the expense of player creativity in their character spec. Want a 2-weapon fighter? Sorry you can't. Want a mage with a sword? Sorry no. Rogue with a shield? Not happening. What remains to be seen is if the rest of the game makes up for it. 

I'm Still excited about DA2, but I'm much more excited about Witcher 2 and Skyrim. Simply because those companies are not backing off the RPG  elements.

[Bill]

Hey guys, IB's starting a fight!

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

[[IPA] Thalamus]

@ManCowFish:

the first one (IMO) looked painfully nerdy

the fact that all of my nerdy friends loved the shit out of it confirms this

That's funny actually, because I always thought Battletech was the king of nerdiness, only surpassed by EVE online and star trek


@Askis:

The "streamlined" ability trees seem to work fine for Warriors and Rogues, but Mages got gimped somewhat...
Unless there are additional trees that have been totally removed from the demo, much of the Mages' variety has been lost.
I also would like to know what the level cap is, if it's too low making highly specialized will probably a necessity (except on the low difficulty settings )

Graphics wise I do like most of it, obviously I don't know how other characters look like, but I thought the Flemeth redesign was a bit much, also the textures, oh god the textures
I really hope the PC version get's a high-res texture mod at some point.

No dualwielding?  I thought that was only deactivated during the demo. That's a shame, I really loved dual-wielding in DA:O. Two swords on my character meant serious business and unlimited splatter in every battle. A shame, but at least I'm in good company if mages suffer from the reductions the same way


I really liked the Flemeth redesign, though (old one looked like the cat lady from simpsons ). She looks really threatening now. Also, her style is kinda "theatre/musical"-like in that the costume expresses and embodies her role in the game. I notice that this is, although to a lesser degree,  also the case with Hawke and Isabell. I conclude that DA2 will be a little bit more theatralic, or "japanese-rpgish" when it comes out: landscape only supporting the mood and immersion, focus on the fancy characters. I like that direction.


@Eldragon:

But I'm very suspicious of the changes they made for DA2. Especially because I hated the changes they did for Mass Effect 2. For me ME2 wasn't an RPG but an action game with an excellent story, but otherwise uninteresting combat and character classes.

We already know class choices in DA2 got gimped in a serious way. Their general design philosophy was to make every class unique, and fill a specific role, but this was done at the expense of player creativity in their character spec. Want a 2-weapon fighter? Sorry you can't. Want a mage with a sword? Sorry no. Rogue with a shield? Not happening. What remains to be seen is if the rest of the game makes up for it. 

I'm Still excited about DA2, but I'm much more excited about Witcher 2 and Skyrim. Simply because those companies are not backing off the RPG  elements.

That reaction baffles me a bit, lol. Not because it is stupid but because it is exactly the opposite of what I experienced. I mean, at first you speak negatively about ME2 but then you're praising The Witcher (2), which, imo, contradicts itself a bit. The Witcher was the prototype of RPGs that focus less on character development and numbercrunching and excel at story-telling and -development. I mean, the fights basically consisted of "click-click-BOOM", but the game shined at the moments when you had to decide what would happen to the people around you, or during the cut-scenes when you learned to know your character and his associates. In that, Mass Effect 2 and The Witcher are very much like each other.

But in the end I guess this comes down to a discussion about what "RPG" actually means. For me, developing characters with a calculator and harvesting dungeons has never been much of interest. For me it was more about taking a certain role and filling it in in a way that reflects yourself. And in that, The Witcher, Mass Effect and even games like Fahrenheit were much better than games like Neverwinter Nights (I won't say "Baldur's Gate" now because then I'd probably get killed for heresy  ). Thus, I'm fairly optimistic about that release.


But, I'm actually looking forward even more to play Skyrim and The Witcher 2, and then Mass Effect 3 (my highlights for the next 12 months) 

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

With the fights consisting of lots of smaller enemies and no overhead view, aiming the AOE abilities, especially trying to hit moving enemies with them, is a lot harder.

uh what?  the AOE spells have a circle, cone, or arc indicator to aim the AOE and see if you'll hit your party members.  Also, the AI is simple, just aim the spell where the enemies are going to be and it hits them.  Also use the space bar to pause the game to make aiming even easier.

Not sure how useful dual wield Rogues are in those fights, I'm not even sure they still get a damage bonus for backstabs >_>

they definitely still get bonuses for back stabs and flanking.  My friend said the backstab is almost an insta gib move against weak enemies

The "streamlined" ability trees seem to work fine for Warriors and Rogues, but Mages got gimped somewhat...
Unless there are additional trees that have been totally removed from the demo, much of the Mages' variety has been lost.

The feel i got was they locked some trees just for the demo, the 6 they showed looked the same from DA 1 but without the "prestige classes"

[=KoS= Eldragon]

That reaction baffles me a bit, lol. Not because it is stupid but because it is exactly the opposite of what I experienced. I mean, at first you speak negatively about ME2 but then you're praising The Witcher (2), which, imo, contradicts itself a bit. The Witcher was the prototype of RPGs that focus less on character development and numbercrunching and excel at story-telling and -development. I mean, the fights basically consisted of "click-click-BOOM", but the game shined at the moments when you had to decide what would happen to the people around you, or during the cut-scenes when you learned to know your character and his associates. In that, Mass Effect 2 and The Witcher are very much like each other.

But in the end I guess this comes down to a discussion about what "RPG" actually means. For me, developing characters with a calculator and harvesting dungeons has never been much of interest. For me it was more about taking a certain role and filling it in in a way that reflects yourself. And in that, The Witcher, Mass Effect and even games like Fahrenheit were much better than games like Neverwinter Nights (I won't say "Baldur's Gate" now because then I'd probably get killed for heresy  ). Thus, I'm fairly optimistic about that release.

Yeah, my feeling certainly seem contradictory. I still enjoyed ME2, and I will mostly certainly enjoy DA2. Can I enjoy ME2 and still hate some of the changes? I guess so.

There were 2 huge things I didn't like about ME2. Lack of side quests, and lack of character customization. You had your "companion loyalty" missions, which was close, but it broke the immersion for me every time that "MISSION COMPLETE" screen popped up. I really missed landing on random planets with an "away team" and mowing down random space pirates and geth.

For character customization, there wasn't anything really interesting you could do with your characters level progression. Compared to Witcher where you could focus on various signs and sword styles and come out of the game with two totally different characters. And from what I've read Witcher 2 is going even further down that route (specialize in Signs, Alchemy, or swordplay, but you cant master all 3).

DA2 reduced character customization greatly from DA:O. Character spec is a huge part of the fun for me. I played through DA:O three times, and played half to 2/3 through another three times (thus all 6 origins were covered). Each character was radically different. What remains to be seen is if DA2 character customization lets you play through with the same class twice and depending on spec, the character plays differently.

Not that there is anything wrong with a story only game. Really its like the entire Computer RPG genre is going back to the adventure games of the 1990s. Except instead of solving puzzles, you are killing things. The Quest For Glory series is one of my favorite RPGs ever, and in that game character customization is minimal, and story is huge.

[AlfalphaCat]

Ok, I never played Dragon Age, but I am a little put off, not by the stories, but all the damn cut scenes in 'modern' RPGs.  Really the last time I was excited about graphics when it came to an RPG was FF VII, seriously!  Well, 12 or 13 whichever it was(the one with the playboy bunny rabbit crazy bomb archer chick) pretty cool, but I really liked the battle mechanics in that.

So, anyways, the problem I have with ME and other of their games is the focus on damn dialog trees, I mean WTF if I wanted to have a conversation I would have a damned conversation with someone.  And ME was horrible with all the running around just to have those conversations(mostly the Citadel).  I never finished because I got caught up doing the side missions. 

I need to take a whack at the Witcher again too, wait I never finished Oblivion...

[Askis]

No dualwielding?  I thought that was only deactivated during the demo. That's a shame, I really loved dual-wielding in DA:O. Two swords on my character meant serious business and unlimited splatter in every battle. A shame, but at least I'm in good company if mages suffer from the reductions the same way

How did you get the idea that there's no dual-wielding?^^'
When choosing a character, the default Rogue model is dual wielding and in the short introduction you are too

And the redesign... well, it's a matter of taste, I don't really like the overly flashy approach, in character design or in animations (check out a Mage's standard attack combo, kind of over the top imho :> )

With the fights consisting of lots of smaller enemies and no overhead view, aiming the AOE abilities, especially trying to hit moving enemies with them, is a lot harder.

uh what?  the AOE spells have a circle, cone, or arc indicator to aim the AOE and see if you'll hit your party members.  Also, the AI is simple, just aim the spell where the enemies are going to be and it hits them.  Also use the space bar to pause the game to make aiming even easier.

Well duh, should have specified a bit more:
I find it hard to judge where to aim the AOEs on distant foes, when I need to put the circle some ways in front of them to actually hit, for some reason I'm not sure how far out I'm really aiming which wouldn't be a problem with an overhead view

they definitely still get bonuses for back stabs and flanking.  My friend said the backstab is almost an insta gib move against weak enemies

Hmm, I didn't notice a that huge of a difference in damage output...

The "streamlined" ability trees seem to work fine for Warriors and Rogues, but Mages got gimped somewhat...
Unless there are additional trees that have been totally removed from the demo, much of the Mages' variety has been lost.

The feel i got was they locked some trees just for the demo, the 6 they showed looked the same from DA 1 but without the "prestige classes"

Yeah they did lock some, what I'm referring to is the trees themselves.
The Entropy one for example, it's locked in the demo, but it's still possible to see that it has five main spells with one upgrade per Spell.
That tree in DA1 was a mixture of debuffs, damage spells and crowd control with a total of 16 spells and all of them were useful imho...
So which ones are in now, which ones aren't?
And some crowd control abilities have been nerfed, Crushing Prison completely immobilized an enemy in DA1, only incurs a movement and attack speed penalty in DA2[false: same for Pinning Shot, only a movement speed penalty].
Creation only has one heal spell which has a 60s cooldown (instead of the old 5s) when Regeneration was really useful in DA1, one reason I hope the Spirit Healer Prestige class is still there later on...

EDIT:
Sorry, Pinning Shot still immobilizes

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I figure they put a heavy cool down on healing spells to increase the usefulness of potions. I remember playing DA1 and not using any and had a ridiculous amount by the end that i never used :/

[Askis]

Maybe, but in DA1 you had the choice of taking along a Mage with good healing potential and buffs or take someone else to maximize damage potential, thereby having to rely on potions.
A heal spell on a 60s cooldown is just a panic button and probably not worth spending the ability point on and the creation tree in the Demo (maybe they'll change some stuff until release) imho isn't a good choice as a character's main focus...


Btw, just checked the Ability trees, I'd guess that the level cap is at 15, as the highest level any of the abilities needs is 13.

[Iron Brain]

Yeah so i played this game last night, wth happened to DA? The story line revolves around this champion person now instead of the PC. All the cool aspects of your starting race and class are gone. In fact, i think you can only be human now? The lack of over head camera DOES hurt your ability to use the over powered AoE spells. Also, it feels like the mages are even more over powered now than they were before. DA:O suffered some huge penalties in my book form being way way to easy even on the nightmare mode or w/e the hardest setting was.

Whats the deal with having access to all the classes and trees right away? I never looked up the guids or walk thrus for DA:O before i played it. One of my best memories of that game was unlocking the Battle Mage class and then finding all that hard to get armor in the forest area. Are you seriously telling me that there is no more class unlocking in this game???

Other than all of that it still mostly seems like DA. I never played The Witcher, that game NEVER got enough press, then on Steam last night I found out that The Witcher 2 is already out and on sale  Ill pick up a copy of DA2 for sure but i think ill start on that witcher series next. Is it any good?

Also i still want to prick Flemmith