Author Topic: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.  (Read 1590 times)

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Offline xInVicTuSx

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Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« on: March 05, 2011, 12:33:55 AM »
At some point if we want teamplay oriented games we need to start seriously speeding up the league-type atmosphere process and involve as much of the community as possible in organized games/units.

The larger and more noticeable such activities are the more they will help "nudge" people into units.
As it is now if SJ or TLL particularly aren't playing, I will only see one or two other people in units, heck I just started being in one.
You can't force teamwork on people; you can try to nudge them like some of the battlefields do with squad systems.
But in all honesty this game is so much more complex than any FPS on the market, that it takes more brains and commitment to do well just as one player, much less then starting to organize and apply any larger strategy in a round.

Hopefully as the mod progresses toward 1.0, each patch will add another layer of players in and fill the ranks of unit bound players.
Right now though I would plead to all the vets here who have yet to join or make a unit, do so, it doesn't mean you have to automatically take time out of your busy life and do things you don't want to. If you have friends you like to play with constantly, form a unit or join one together. You don't even have to play in organized matches if you don't want to.
But if more and more of us are in all sorts of units, it will nudge new players who are serious about MWLL into units as well and turn them into better players, faster.

I've played games like this in the past, smaller than the popular FPS and MMO monsters but as games much more awesome.
A game like Jedi Knight II/III has/had a population only slightly bigger than this. The difference was it was the norm to be in a clan in those games because there were so many clans and one would really be left out if they weren't in one. Not only that but the game was so difficult you really needed to learn from vets to know wtf you were doing. Everyone who tried the game usually joined a clan quickly, and learned from their vet members, usually they stuck around for years because it was just tons of fun. The similarity is that both games hold a complexity in the gameplay that clans/units/guilds/etc are almost a necessity to unlock the deep potential of the game. This game has the same potential older games like Jedi Knight and Tribes do imo, even more when you look at the history of planetary leagues in MW.

Right now the image of units is somewhat negative, so many slurs I've seen thrown at SJ are just unfounded, if there are two of them in a server and they play together ZOMG CLAN STACKIN! It isn't their fault they are usually the only two unit bound players in the server. Meanwhile there are 3-6 lurking vets who to all appearances to the average player, are just average players too themselves, but it is the evil clan who are breaking the game balence.

I'm saying this because as a community, there is so much potential in this game we can help by organizing ourselves to help it along.
I think by creating units and filling the game with them one of two things will happen to new players, either they will QQ that there are so many clans around and they got pwned, or note how organized the community is and seek to join whoever will take them, which as I described earlier has happened in other games.

Waiting on stuff like planetary leagues to get organized and for the mod to get to 1.0 I think may be mistake, as we may lose many players who may tire of the game itself before 1.0 from lack of thriving community (I've seen it happen.) Lately I've seen some posts that mention "teamwork" and "devs do something about it" in the same sentence. I mean really? The ONE duty the community has that the devs shouldn't have to worry about is player organization, you know, community
The forums do work well for this, but I think more units will have the same sort of community felt here more tangible in game.

There are already good examples, SJ being very popular, classic clan type with their own site and such, TLL is like this as well, but also you can go a different route, like DcK who do not recruit but are rather a group of longtimers who love playing together.
There are also "less formal" units, such as the 12VR, but then we start getting into things such as the IPA, and the line blurs (they don't compete in any leagues I guess?).

Even so I just reviewed a few to show anyone hesitant to start or join a unit that there are ways to go about it, you don't need a site and forums and TS3 and an elaborate ranking structure (all of which are good if you can get them of course) to add to the character of the community.

So yeah, after being a constant loner for the year+ I've played this game, finally decided its better for the community to unit up, the more we have the easier it will be to organize frequent matches and some real leagues. Not just the bi monthly SJvsTLL "league" match. Just look at the matchmaker section and you will see groups of lonely SJ stars asking for matches.
[you know i <3 you gais] ;)

So unit up, don't worry if it is only you and a couple friends, I think it adds character to the game.

My unit may end up going no where, but I think its time to give it a shot.

This is my own thesis, but I've heard it said in many games, "Came for the pewpew, stayed for the community."

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http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/topic,16841.msg287300.html#msg287300

Offline Steelbarrage

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2011, 01:07:52 AM »
You have merit in what you say and you make a great point. I have to say though that many of the vets who have yet to join, will most likely not. I see more new clanners as regulars joining vs. vets. I think vets just like to play without any kind of affiliation. I like SJ but i doubt I will ever join a unit simply because I want to play this game more as a game than an obligation. I could easily spend a lot of time gaming but I refuse to immerse myself too deeply and start to miss out on other things. Maybe it is the way to go and someday I may be the lone dinosaur on the forums posting.  :D

Offline Bill

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2011, 01:09:30 AM »
I'm sure you posted this thread before.


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Offline [IPA] Thalamus

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2011, 01:25:56 AM »
Everyone looking for loose affiliation and friendly teamsupport may visit us  ;D
The Independent Pubbers' Association

Offline [CW]Aresye

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2011, 01:38:25 AM »
Right now our clan is working on getting bigger, and I think we've been relatively unknown until Iron, Errodien, and myself have created forum rage based on our class specialties.  The issues we've seen related to recruiting are:

- Dwindling Community: Yes, MWLL has been growing, but ever since 4.9 came out, the number of people playing each night has dropped off considerably.  The reason behind this is unknown to me, but it would seem whenever enough people are online, they're more interested in getting some good games in, rather than going through the process of recruiting new players.

- Popular Servers: Huntress and TLL seem to still be the strongest servers of them all, with LGN beginning to become more popular.  This is good for the respective unit, but not good for all the other units, as recruiting on another unit's server for your own unit is considered bad form.

The biggest attracting to belonging in a clan, is the feeling of actually being a part of something.  That means competing in a league or against other units, having a website to talk/organize amongst themselves, and making themselves known to the community.  Having a tag for a unit of 2-3 people doesn't really do much except add a lot of unknown and confusing units to the game.  I myself was without a unit for a long time, because I wanted to find a warden clan that liked to role play at times.

We do need the lesser known clans to up their numbers to the point we can have a competitive league, but this would require flexibility on the part of other clans.

For example, because of the issue of there being 1-3 popular servers, other clans need to be willing to temporarily allow other clans to recruit on them, as long as the server's respective clan is not attempting to recruit at the time.  Clans with unpopulated servers need to be willing to play for awhile on their own servers, until more people join, and then take a proactive approach to recruiting.

Once more players are in units, and there's more people playing at a time, only then should we move back to the way it is now.

Offline Steelbarrage

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2011, 01:57:58 AM »
Aresye, you need to more actively advertise you guys run Urban Jungle and I can guarantee people will flock to your server. I certainly did when I saw that.

Offline Bill

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2011, 02:11:41 AM »
Aresye, you need to more actively advertise you guys run Urban Jungle and I can guarantee people will flock to your server. I certainly did when I saw that.

CJW are debating doing this with funbox. I can ask about if you can use it for recruiting purposes.


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Offline ~SJ~ Riker

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2011, 02:18:12 AM »
Actually [CW] Aresye I'm sure I can speak for most of my brothers when I say that recruiting some folks while participating in PuG games on our server that we wouldn't mind at all. Though still open to recruits we are not truly actively recruiting. We do send invitations now and then out to certain folk that seem of like mind, but we also realize our current size and do not wish to absorb the community into one group. That would just not be favorable to the league activities we try to encourage. We, most specially I, have been recommending now for at least a few months that more people join up and form units and anything we can do to flourish that is welcomed.

@Invictus - Thank you for this post man. We truly want to see more Unit style activity out here. I mean really, if you don't group up and organize well then how in the hell are we suppose to go about conquering you?  ;)

Offline ~SJ~ Wolf

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2011, 02:27:02 AM »
Actually [CW] Aresye I'm sure I can speak for most of my brothers when I say that recruiting some folks while participating in PuG games on our server that we wouldn't mind at all. Though still open to recruits we are not truly actively recruiting. We do send invitations now and then out to certain folk that seem of like mind, but we also realize our current size and do not wish to absorb the community into one group. That would just not be favorable to the league activities we try to encourage. We, most specially I, have been recommending now for at least a few months that more people join up and form units and anything we can do to flourish that is welcomed.

@Invictus - Thank you for this post man. We truly want to see more Unit style activity out here. I mean really, if you don't group up and organize well then how in the hell are we suppose to go about conquering you?  ;)

I gotta agree with Riker, SJ is quite large we can field 4 full stars. I won't mind at all if people are looking for recruits on Huntress.

Offline Blu C

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2011, 02:32:14 AM »
Minor comment with regard to servers:

People generally don't join empty servers.  There just isn't any fun to be had there.  If you can get roughly 8-10 people going in a server at once, however, things tend to take care of themselves.  At the moment the community is only large enough to keep 2-3 servers at that level.

So if you are trying to attract players to your clan server you may look into hosting some sort of event or another, with the goal of hitting the magic 8-10 number.

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2011, 02:52:12 AM »
@Steel
"I want to play this more of a game than an obligation" <- that attitude right there I have shared for more than a year, and it has been my policy in other games for ages.

But I realized, it doesn't have to be that way. Just find or make a unit where demands on your time are nonexistent. I've had clan mates in past games I would see once every two weeks, but it was still fun to hang with them when they did play. I've seen you voice impassioned opinions on team stacking, teamwork, and fair play, it will be hard to change that if we all lurk.
Units can be tools to make your existing time funner, no matter when that time happens to be, and help the community as a whole, which I think is important.

@Riker, Wolf

You two have hit on an important point I was going to add. The best thing larger units can do is not be so uptight about other units recruiting on their servers.
While this may be a legitimate issue in many games, in smaller games like this where the larger clans for some reason always have full servers (that happened in JKIII, not why that happens... ???) it REALLY stifles other clans growth, when the only server populated forbids recruiting, unit growth just aint gonna happen.
I've seen this happen in JKIII, there was a golden age at first because individuals owned populated servers and allowed anyone to recruit, clans flourished. But then all those clans got their own servers, and started forbidding anyone to recruit on their servers. This was ok until people stopped going to the neutral servers and only to a few big clan servers. Those few clans bloated a bit overall it hurt diversity and competition. If SJ,TLL, WD.7 were take the lead in declaring their servers neutral territory, relying on their own prestige rather than strict rules to draw recruits, that would be a big plus to unit growth and I at least, would gain much respect for them.


@Aryse
"Having a tag for a unit of 2-3 people doesn't really do much except add a lot of unknown and confusing units to the game.  I myself was without a unit for a long time, because I wanted to find a warden clan that liked to role play at times." <- This is simply not true, and this attitude is helping the SJvsTLL "league" matches I've been talking about. Granted, it would help to have a more extensive Unit area on the forums where units can communicate and have their own subforum areas, If its one thing I think the devs could contribute, it would be that.

@Bill,
I may have posted something about the community in days of yore, but I think it had something to do with server management. It had nothing to do with units, that I'm sure of.

-Invictus ne Vindicetur-

KNIGHTS GRAND 5V5 TOURNAMENT THIS MARCH! More info below.
http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/topic,16841.msg287300.html#msg287300

Offline ~SJ~ Wolf

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 03:03:20 AM »
Aresye, you need to more actively advertise you guys run Urban Jungle and I can guarantee people will flock to your server. I certainly did when I saw that.

Honestly its really not a big commitment, this isn't an MMO.  Two hours for matches a week (during the season) maybe an hour or two for practice. It's just using the time you would for a pub game for organized play instead.

Offline Waysted

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 04:06:11 AM »
I'm going to have to politely disagree, maybe if the right group came along sure.  However, I don't want to feel obligated to play a game for a unit (guild, corporation, fleet).  I already play plenty of other games that in effect require membership in an organization to get the most out of the game (BTW: What happened to ISK? =P  Such a nice unit of a money Invictus).

This game lets me jump on blast multi-ton mechanized monsters for a while, then get off without that obligation.  I can do my own thing or I can work with people.  I don't have to be in a unit or on a voice chat to necessarily effectively work with others.  There are plenty of players in this mod that I don't have to engage in verbal or written communication to have an idea of how to work with them.

More power to you wanting to build the community, but I just don't want to see the community end up at a point where it's be in a unit or GTFO.  Which I've seen happen in a few other (granted older) mod communities.  You were left playing with a handful of clanned players, who of course faded over time.

Offline [CW] Errodien Ward

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 04:26:59 AM »
Aresye, you need to more actively advertise you guys run Urban Jungle and I can guarantee people will flock to your server. I certainly did when I saw that.

I'll talk w/ our server manager and see if we can change it back.

I too liked the Urban map ^_^

Offline sgnl05

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Re: Units, teamwork, and the MWLL commmunity.
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 05:07:24 AM »
I agree with Waysted. Most MWLL players aren't in clans, and I don't think it's because it's never occured to them to join. I personally have zero interest in being in one. Games that revolve around clans tend to be pretty insular communities, and it can be pretty intimidating for new players when they realise that they have to sign up to the ~*69thDeAtHHEADlEgIoN*~ (complete with obnoxious power tripping clan leader and bad forum sigs) if they want to actually play the game.

I don't think pubbers are naturally adverse to teamwork or anything like that, it's just that MWLL is way too complex for a team to organize itself effectively around a single team chat channel. Clans get around this quite well by using voice chat, but you'll never get the majority of players into them, and this creates its own problems in pub games. If an entire clan all joins one side so they can work together on vent, that's all well and good until the other side loses a few players and one of the clan guys needs to switch to balance the teams. If he does he can't use vent anymore, and if he doesn't then the game is unbalanced.


I think the battlefield squad systems are a testament to how well pubbers will work together if you give them the tools and incentive to do so. Features like that are good for clans too, because they can make use of them as well, and they increase the standard of play amongst the general player population so clanners get better games as well.

TL;DR: you'll never get the majority of the playerbase to run off and join clans, but with the right tools you can get them playing like clans.

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