Author Topic: 40 kills vs 4 kills  (Read 6287 times)

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Offline Mekabuser=12thVR=

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40 kills vs 4 kills
« on: March 19, 2011, 04:14:51 AM »
I hope I can get my point across here. This is to me something that is just as bad , if not worse, than the ctd issue which is being met head on by the devs<kudos!>
THis is the only game, sport, you name it where the rules of the game can lead to what can only be described as a "bad experience" all too often.
There is really nothing worse than seeing two teams, one with 40 kills and one with 4. Thats an example, but by no means an exaggeration. Ive seen it countless times. We have a million threads about team stacking , clan stacking , whatever, combined with people who just stick to the RP no matter what< I dont want to die, not even once> , people who wont switch , for whatever reason .. ad nausea m. Its not something that can be solved reliably by the player base. Sure there are those who will be cool and SEEK to make it even , but they are the minority. Its essentially human nature to be a douche , so the mechanics of the game <IN THE EVENT OF MISMATCH> have to change.
Otherwise, there is no way we are going to grow a community , because the game is NOT fun in a mismatch.. Even for vets sometimes.
THis type of suggestion has been raised before, by whom, cant remember, frosty, buzz maybe, but once the shit starts to really hit the fan for one team, it really is necessary for the game itself to kick in . Just like in the stock market, when the dow sheds 200 points in 30 minutes, programs are tripped and the bleeding is slowed.
If after x amount  of time , one team is significantly down , in points or k/d ratio, the loosing team SHOULD get x amount more cbills at spawn.
If it continues after x amount of time, that number should increase until the K/d ratio gets close to parity.
Sure, there would be bigger, fatter targets, but there would be MORE variety for people to field, not to mention the additional armor and firepower.
Not to mention, i am not a bad pilot when i try. I dont know what the inside of an assault looks like since 4.0.Let alone many heavies.
This cant be a game where one team can jump out to a huge lead and the other team is just left throwing spitballs . This is the only game I have seen where this can happen on a consistent basis and it kills me everytime I see it.
I mean if your team is good enough to go 40 vs 4 , then there really should be no problem for your team if the other guys get to field the exact same equipment you are beating them up with right?

Most people who play this game are going to be pubbing. This mechanic wouldnt even kick in for league or any kind of normal game. Just for the back breaking Bullshit games that appear to happen all to often  that we as a community have been unable to stop.
I hope this can be implemented.

Offline sgnl05

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 04:21:38 AM »
Well you've got to remember that the banking changes should help with this, but I tend to agree and I doubt fixed banking will solve the problem entirely. I like the suggestion of giving the losing team more money. Another solution might just be moving high ranking players from one team to the other, preserving their rank. This is probably more annoying for those players than your suggestion, but it addresses the skill disparity between teams as well as the rank/ cash disparity.
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Offline =KoS= Tripod

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 04:46:37 AM »
Forced switching is never a good answer

A while ago Wolf said something about giving the losing team 5k to their spawn bills for every 100 tickets they are down compared to the enemy. I liked the idea and mentioned it a few times, but not many others noticed it.

Your idea is basically the same :-\
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Offline Mekabuser=12thVR=

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 05:07:46 AM »
I know its the same, but after seeing the problem again last night, on the only populated server I decided to make a post.
I know its beta and all, but it really is important that we dont push people away from the game once they get here and games like what I saw cant really be encouraging for anyone to participate in.. Even guys like me who love this mod to death. Yep i was there for only literally 3 minutes, joining halfway through, and i was just like.. ah forget it.. its not worth it.
I f i had joined at the beginning of the match, maybe I wouldnt have minded as much, but such disparities are meticulous.
Its worse than the harlem globe trotters.

Offline xInVicTuSx

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 05:11:22 AM »
Be very careful with this type of system.
Roflstomps begin early round. People who have no idea how to use light mechs well end up losing tons of them and bleed tons of tickets away fast. I've had many teams that started out piss poor, but I was able to help the team hang on long enough for them to start to get heavier assets. At this point I've seen newer people start to do much better, often there will be accusations of banking and shenanigans from the other team who cant understand how things turned around so much.

All that said, getting things too heavy begins to get annoying. Particularly when one is doing well in a medium, but somehow the people you are killing start showing up in heavies (this used to happen alot when ranks were more liberal).
There is evidence to support such an idea, but I would be careful with it.

The current banking is a culprit for much of it, get rid of that then maybe slow down bleed rates a bit.

See what those do then start sending out free money. 


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Offline GB-72AT Talon

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 05:26:23 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  If you guys saying forced team switching doesn't work would take a minute and look at the most successful multiplayer game ever....Could.tee Strike.  Forced team switching works, period.

I think the game could dynamically alter the cost of assets based on the ebb and flow of the game. 



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Offline Mekabuser=12thVR=

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 05:41:29 AM »
I m not much for forced switching . @ invictus. I completely realize that if implemented it would be a mechanic that of course would probably have to be modified a few times. That being said, I dont think it would be that hard if there were three tiers based on time into the match. According to the ass whipping, if one is taking place , would determine the c bill bonus at respawn, after you have died yet again.

Offline ~SJ~KorbinWimmer

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 05:58:34 AM »
I don't like giving teams cbills because it forces the game into heavies/assaults faster... 

Offline =KoS= Tripod

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 06:03:11 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again.  If you guys saying forced team switching doesn't work would take a minute and look at the most successful multiplayer game ever....Could.tee Strike.  Forced team switching works, period.

I think the game could dynamically alter the cost of assets based on the ebb and flow of the game.
I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that it's not fun and should only be used as a last resort (if ever) Finally getting your group of noobs to get their shit together and take some bases, resulting in the enemy being wiped out and facing better equipment on respawn, followed by you being forcibly switched only to be little help (one guy with 100k can't help too much against an enemy that holds the two points in front of your base and is filled with high quality mechs, especially if they fix banking) would not only suck for you, but the entire losing team.

Compare that to your enemy showing up with mechs of similar quality while everybody stays where they are, and you'll see that one is a far better fix and experience 
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Offline AlfalphaCat

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 06:18:24 AM »
The worst that I have seen, and I have seen it often enough, is the folks that switch from the loosing team to the winning team.  I mean come on!!

I am one of those rare types that actually enjoys trying to come back from such seemingly impossible odds.  Now, any newblood that has experienced one of the rare comeback wins will be hooked for life.  :) ;D

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Offline sgnl05

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 06:26:29 AM »
I don't like giving teams cbills because it forces the game into heavies/assaults faster...

The team would only receive enough free cbills to buy heavies and assaults if the other team could already afford them. If one team has them and the other doesn't then that's probably worse than both teams having them I think.
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Offline CGB [CoffiNail]

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2011, 06:30:53 AM »
Team switching could work, if some random luck you could code it so what ever asset the player has atm is transfered over as well. I mean, even if you beat up on the noobs and get an atlas, switch over and hack away at the other team, maybe a set timer so you could not switch back over to the first team to re-beat on the noobs for cbills , get atlas, transfer, etc.

Idea put out.



Offline bob

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2011, 06:54:51 AM »
since i am pretty new with this mod, first off - well done, pretty nice mech game!
however i also made the observation that almost all games are quite heavily biased towards one team (i would guess the one with the better take off at map start).
if you join the "losing" team then, it becomes insanely difficult to get anything done in the average pub match. you stuck with owens c, try to get some shots and 30 minutes later you maybe can afford a cheap medium mech after dieing 10 times. then 15 minutes later the map ends. next map the same gamble (does my team get a better start?).
as a suggestion i would either try out some auto progression system for all players (independent of skill), where the first 15 minutes is light, med, next 15 minutes med/heavy and last 15 minutes heavy/assault, or i would somehow lower the overall progression difficulty. that way the veteran players could still have their skill, but it would not lead to these extremely one sided matches so much.
or increase map timers so that they run 60-90 minutes instead of 45 (most servers run like that). all the needed cc grind and banking is something that distracts too much from the actual game(mech fight) so i would loose it up a bit. also especially to attract newer players, since how it is now if you are unlucky it can be pretty frustrating. (also there is some russian server that actually tells new players to get on the other team so the stacked clan can slaughter and finally baserape them, this was a bit wierd and not very honorable. the rest of the community seems very friendly however)

Offline EagleFire

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2011, 07:08:54 AM »
(also there is some russian server that actually tells new players to get on the other team so the stacked clan can slaughter and finally baserape them, this was a bit wierd and not very honorable. the rest of the community seems very friendly however)

That would be RDL as they play to win and nothing else. I would say that everyone should make an effort to avoid playing with them if possible. If there isn't another populated server, get one going.

Offline bob

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Re: 40 kills vs 4 kills
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2011, 07:32:38 AM »
yes, rdl, but i would not say that they were unfriendly in any particular way, just enforcing an already imbalanced situation which is - if you are kind of new to the game not helping much.
i can understand clans wanting to play together, and it can be a challenge to fight them, but the main problem in that case is that the game ranking mechanics makes these situations tip over too easily and without strong team communication and some experienced players on your side quite impossible to counter.