Clan society

[=KoS= Saber15]

MW:DA is fine. I see nothing wrong with it, though I personally think most of the original mech designs for DA looked dumb as hell, and the writing was kinda screwy. Read the first DA novel, it was decent. I haven't played DA yet, since AFAIK there isn't a online version like BT's MegaMek, but it looks like it could be fun. BT tends to turn into a giant clusterfapp once you've got more than a lance of units, with turns taking several minutes (and this is on MegaMek where it does all the math for you). I prefer BT's writing and designs over DA's writing and designs.

Keep in mind that I prefer 3025 and dislike the clan invasion 

[«Çߧ» Trooper_Thorn]

Not to take this thing completely OT, but I heard Mektek is going to have to close down their servers in a month or two if they don't get a heap of cash.
______________________________________________________

I think it's this type of anti-Dark Age, OG Battletech rules, elitism so to speak that has really killed any hopes of really reviving the original storyline.  It gives developers very little leeway.   Societies tastes do change over time.  It seems to me quite obvious that there is no financial motivation for any firm to try and take on Mechwarrior/Battletech at least to the depth that many players want it.

I do like the original story better, but you can't fault Wizkids for attempting to resurrect the game.  At least they had the balls to attempt to keep MW/BT somewhat relevant to the modern gamer.  They did so in what they thought would be the best way possible, and they attempted to give it a storyline that many people would be able to jump into without needing to spend 6 months catching up on the political intrigue of the OG universe.

You can trash them as much as you want, but the fact remains that without them Battletech / Mechwarrior has essentially been untouched and undiscovered by gamers  for nearly 10 years now.   

Q: Is that the communities fault? A: Hell no, The fault is with MS after they trashed MW and then let the property sit on the shelf and rot. Now as for this elitism argument it is BS, I look at it from the point of view as better writing, more in-depth universe and a grand story line that has yet to be fulfilled. The reviving of the original storyline is not all that difficult. As for relevancy to the more modern gamer, what is the problem have they been so dumbed down as to not to be able in their stupidity as to understand the full breath and scope of the original story line or is it a 3.5 second attention span theater that with out simplistic flashy bangy things they would stumble off drooling to their next bout of Final Fantasy # 965. No, I think too many game production people underestimate the gaming public and I am quite sure that the original story line could be reintroduced to the new generation and they would find it as interesting as "Us so-called elitist old timers" have and still do.

I equated this mentality to GM which is something I have over 40 years experience with since my family worked as well as myself in the auto business since 1962 when my father broke into the business selling Chevrolet in Miami Fla. GM reached the point where they no longer listened to their customer base and what they wanted in a car but took the attitude we will build it and they will buy it. How did that work out for GM? A lot of long time customers went "Japanese" or to other manufacturers that tried to cater to the customers wants and needs. So now GM is Barrack Hussein Obama motors and is still bleeding cash like a slaughtered pig. There is a lot of former GM dealers out there who stuck with GM and now have lost it all. Is this what it is going to take to reset the gaming industry particularly BT/MW? As for Mek Tek I hate to see them dieing but MWLL is a far better product even if it is a mod.

Next to MWLL MekTek 3.1 for MW4 series looks too cartoonish and the third person view community has taken over, more and more "Old timers" are coming here when they find out about it, you can only take leg and thumper fest, and lousy graphics compared to MWLL so long. We dropped the other night in 3.1 testing and the game video and weapons fire and lack of combined arms was glaringly apparent and as a team we have decided to drop 3.1 for league play. If Mek Tek wants to survive it had better jump on this bandwagon since this will with more and more certainty become the only game in town as it were. If MW reboot ever becomes a reality the more modern gamers as you put it are going to have to learn the old story line and secondly S&T with Piranha are going to have to make their game as in depth and visually exiting as the promo trailer or it will flop next to MWLL.

[Kelmola]

Hey, it could be worse. Like, the introduction to BT universe in the boxset could be updated to "current" times (3085), but it isn't, instead it's still in late 3067 like it has been for the last ten years. Although, instead of the goodwill of the developers, there's probably a much more prosaic reason for this - there's still not a single full-length source book (written from "omniscient" perspective instead of the in-universe stuff we got now) available that would actually update the universe to post-Jihad times, so an abbreviated version could not exist either...

Also, as for creating an "entry point", it was already there, it was the 3025 era (which is what the rules of the BT boxset still put you in). Relatively static universe, few factions but with strong identities each, centuries of technological decay have made 'Mechs almost priceless, all the IndustrialMechs, AgroMechs and ForestryMechs would have fit nicely there. Then you could have started introducing "booster packs" as a result of the discovery of Helm memory core/Clantech, new factions (Periphery, mercenaries, Com Guards, FRR, first wave of invading Clans, second wave of invading Clans, Home Clans, WoB), etc. gradually without alienating the existing fan base.

Yes, the seeds of Jihad were sown early on what with the then-religious ComStar fervently believing in the soon-approaching End Times (and actively working to hasten them by killing scientists and provoking wars), but back then it was certainly not about the descendants of the Not-Named Clan throwing a temper tantrum when they couldn't get the Successor States to back up their plan of wiping out the Clan homeworlds with their stockpiles of WMD's.

[Nebfer]

"Nebfer" So stop complaining, the DA time line is canon, now when BT gets to that time frame, they might be able to sort a few things out, perhaps even change a few things. You do not have to play in that era, but for goodness sake do got go shouting "its not canon, it's an alternate universe", because it is NOT either one of thoughs.

Yea? Well there are a lot of us due to the zipper heads that created DA, that have basically been kicked to the curb because of the drug induced F-up called "Dark Ages." We are the ones that have been keeping this game alive during Evercrack and Sims #951 the epic of self flagellation and as Grem has put it, "MW/BT is now our game and WE will make of it what we will." The jerk wagons that abandoned their player base can go take a flying leap for all we care. The trash that has been dumped upon us will not be accepted no matter what people like you wish, and if there ever is a new BT/MW game from Jordan Weizmann @ Smith and Tinker, which I am beginning to highly doubt; it had better be the best thing to hit distribution with the reboot since Crescent Hawks.

The gaming production world abandoned us not the other way around so WE the BT/MW community have taken it upon ourselves to keep this alive with people like MekTek  doing Mech Paks with MW4 and Wandering Samurai doing MWLL Mod out of Crysis. Both do not have any of the DA BS in them. Myself personally because I am on a limited income, I do not have to spend my money or support people or companies that tell their dedicated player base, "FU we don't care what you think we are going to stuff this tripe down your throat and you had better damn well genuflect toward us. That is the same mentality GM had toward the car buying public, they even had Zone managers tell dealers "WE will make and they will buy it!" even after asking the dealers what did the buying public say they wanted in their cars; that is why GM is now Obama motors. Currently all S&T cares about  their stupid Hanover game for kiddies and now all their site talks about is the 2011 coming mobile ap with the Marvel universe. Again the MW/BT player base is kicked to the curb, well F them we do not need them or their input and I now hope Harmony Gold sues them into oblivion! As for the BT/MWDA book writers and their table top crap they can stuff it, I DO NOT have to spend my limited income on their crap either and I hope they bite the dust also and we who are the core base for MW/BT will take this into our own hands and make of it what we will!

Is this more of a computer game thing? As that's what it sounds like? First off Microsoft owns that area of the franchise. So blame Microsoft, not the DA guys, Heck they never made a Dark age PC era game.

You do relies that Battletech is not a computer game, it dose not and never will revolve around the computer game series. Heck the books your hate are more canonical then your games.

So if your the real battletech then why are you not making new battletech products, advancing the storyline, advancing the game(s)?

Because your are not any of thoughs, Fanpro/Catalyst are, and they are advancing the regular battletech series in both products, story wise and game wise. They even created products to suit players who prefer other eras, they made products for the war of 3039, the founding of the Clans, the Clan invasion era, as well as advancing the regular timeline to the late 3070s.

So how have they kicked you to the curb? They can not do a PC game as they do not hold the licenses to do so, but they do hold a licenses to work on the real core of the battletech universe (and remember with out the "table top" game they never would of been a mechwarrior PC game).

[Gremlich]

DA timeline is now canon?

Horseshit.

Well, maybe only to those that paid out cash to buy the related products. I am not among them.

DA is an alternate timeline as far as I'm concerned. Like Star Trek Enterprise.

[Kalon]

@ «Çߧ» Trooper_Thorn I could not agree more sir! Well said! When I played MW4: Vengeance I was expecting MW3+. The graphics, the controls all changed. I went to the Black Knight expansion pack & finally Mercenaries. As you rightfully said it just looks too cartoonish. The 1st time I saw the trailer for the MWLL mod I was blown away. This is what gets me angry. This is not the multi million dollar corporation of Microsoft, this is regular people who did not even make a game, they made a MOD for another game that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Battletech/Mechwarrior that looks BETTER & incorporates more into it than the actual creators. This is like KOTOR II: The Sith Lords. They rushed the game to get it out for the Christmas shopping period & the game was unfinished. They were so lazy they left the stuff they were going to put in on the actual discs. It was regular players & lovers of the franchise that took time out of their busy schedules restoring content for all to enjoy. To all the MWLL staff, THANK YOU! You are appreciated.

[Taemien]

@ «Çߧ» Trooper_Thorn I could not agree more sir! Well said! When I played MW4: Vengeance I was expecting MW3+. The graphics, the controls all changed. I went to the Black Knight expansion pack & finally Mercenaries. As you rightfully said it just looks too cartoonish. The 1st time I saw the trailer for the MWLL mod I was blown away. This is what gets me angry. This is not the multi million dollar corporation of Microsoft, this is regular people who did not even make a game, they made a MOD for another game that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Battletech/Mechwarrior that looks BETTER & incorporates more into it than the actual creators. This is like KOTOR II: The Sith Lords. They rushed the game to get it out for the Christmas shopping period & the game was unfinished. They were so lazy they left the stuff they were going to put in on the actual discs. It was regular players & lovers of the franchise that took time out of their busy schedules restoring content for all to enjoy. To all the MWLL staff, THANK YOU! You are appreciated.

Kinda derailing a thread here a little, but this sort of needs to be said.

This is why gamers should make games and not regular executives. Say what you will about Blizzard, but every game they have made has done very well and has felt complete right out of the box. Now play any game made by EA in comparison, or even Bethesda.

[Ghiest]

DA timeline is now canon?

Horseshit.

Well, maybe only to those that paid out cash to buy the related products. I am not among them.

DA is an alternate timeline as far as I'm concerned. Like Star Trek Enterprise.

I feel like that about the clan invasion thing, not because of what it did to the story (which I actually do like) but what it did to the universe/battletech as a balanced more-complex-chess game

In terms of game play (as in board/RPG game not games themselves which is a whole different matter) it completely ruined the whole thing.  Any thing they tried onwards from there was just compounding their error.  Sure I know they have to move on and create new stuff to sell to people but to ruin a perfectly balanced game for the profit exceeds their stupidity.

As for the whole dark age thing, it's a write off imo.  Anything that polarizes you player base so much that a vast majority of fans completely ignore it, is a major major mistake on their part.  Warships, nukes and biological weapons?  Meh, sorry but it's all bullshit

[Conjure]

He is a traditional Smoke Jaguar, he does not waste time.   What he is meaning is that knowing someone who worked at FASA at the time the clans were being written out and people had huge interest at this time so a lot was written out.  There is a lot that may never have been published at game wise it was more irrelivent to publishing, and was left out.  Plus having people confirm his thoughts on the SJ just being made the bad guy to further the plot...

No, he just gets exteriminated by the IS .  ; )

I don't think that's really valid either.  For example, if something -were- left out?

First off the Jaguar's are not dead, they are alive and I can say no more than thus...it is in the books you just have to find it.

Second Thanks Coffin nail for your support, Jags normally only have themselves to rely on.

And to respond to the comment that I quoted of your last post ChuggyG, they were not "left out" they did not have the time or money to impliment them properly and thus they were "bought out" more than anything else, and when another company picked up the sotry line they looked at the notes and said...nahhhh we wanna do it like this....completely throwing Babcock's story out the window

I have to agree with you about  the writing behind "Operation Bulldog" and Smoke Jaguars demise. A typical example of the tongue and cheek style you see in a number of the BTU novels.  Twilight of the Clans was with out character depth, insight into real human nature, and frankly unimaginative.  Very frustrating for a long time fan of the original FASA games and universe.  There is this amazing wealth of resource to draw from and I hope to see future authors take advantage.  The complexities of clan society and the clash of Terran influenced house cultures leaves for great story potential. Instead we get a bull* good vs evil axiom that leads us to the end of the invasions. Really unexciting finish.

More to my point and the reason I'm reviving this thread after seeing some argument over the novels and canon.  I have read about all the canon you can and there are a ton of loopholes for Smoke Jaguar to come back. In fact I know an author that might be interested in writing novel with a Jag cameo   The story would encompass the relationship between clans, clan life and a really human look into how this effects their role in the universe. The outline of his story has a lot of fun and intriguing surprises. It's just a friend/avid fan writing for the fun of it and for our group of friends. He does have thoughts of a BTU revival in the science fiction world. No dialogue with Battle corps so far has been made yet but who knows what could happen. Like i said he is just having some fun of his with it on his own. You guys that are disillusioned with the storyline may see this as something to look forward to. I know I am hoping for it!

[Odins Reaver]

I know I'm a year late (yeah what can I say I was really really busy this time last year), but I'd like to point out that the Bears, Wolves and Falcons would look rather similar as they absorbed mostly Russian, German, and Scandinavian bloodnames.

As for the whole DA thing, yeah the whole thing is meh to me. I really did try and like it, I tried  to play it, it didn't feel very Battletech to me.

As for the whole Microsoft thing, well MW/BT isn't the only franchise that they put on hold, I still want my third Lancer game. I remember back in NBT4/Mercs/HC I would play Freelancer with the Fire Mandrills and a few Dimond Sharks and Hells Horses. That was a lot of fun after drops. (Note: this isn't my old Callsign BTW).

[Ressk [CSF]]

necro...

CSF is better than all of y'all 

EDIT: i suppose if you two up there necroed this i may as well contribute to the thread instead of just being dumb.

Ive read Jade Phoenix, and some Dark Age stuff, only really got an insight into clan workings on Sarna or with Jade Phoenix. The caste system is interesting... but man those jade falcons hate people 

sure glad i picked CSF to resurrect, get all nice and cosy with the merchant caste... however unfortunately there are not any books on my clan that ive ever seen, plus with the re-naming happening well beyond 3065...

[Clan Nova Cat ^o.o^]

I have to say that my main problem with MekTek is that the whole ports issue with the game does not allow me to play online though the single player is good. Graphically it does look cartoony and play 3rd personey though. 

oh wait... your talking about DA... loved DA but nevermind...

[=CJW=YalK]

necro...

CSF is better than all of y'all 

EDIT: i suppose if you two up there necroed this i may as well contribute to the thread instead of just being dumb.

Ive read Jade Phoenix, and some Dark Age stuff, only really got an insight into clan workings on Sarna or with Jade Phoenix. The caste system is interesting... but man those jade falcons hate people 

sure glad i picked CSF to resurrect, get all nice and cosy with the merchant caste... however unfortunately there are not any books on my clan that ive ever seen, plus with the re-naming happening well beyond 3065...

I am a Falcon and I hate people, so I guess your correct

[Bill]

CSF can eat a dick, we're the best.

We're better than those supposed renegade Jaguars, we're so true kvlt that we're only supposed to have existed for a fortnight.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

How long until you find a dirty dildo in Bane's dresser?