Author Topic: 0.5 Impressions (JJs, base turrets, rocks, Mad Dogs and Kit Fox throttle)  (Read 656 times)

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Offline Straylight

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So now that I've had some time to settle into the nuances of 0.5, I see a lot of improvements and a lot of smoothing across the project, and the new game mode is both hilarious and delightful. I come away from each successive path with the strong impression that things are getting better and better with every hour our loving devs put into this monster, and with my other hobbies having all become whirlwinds of hatred and spite in the last year, that's a refreshing change.

BUT, as always, there are some things that bother me. Most of them are "meh" moments, but there are five standouts that I'm having trouble coming to terms with. I'm either bringing these to the attention of the powers that be, or I'm looking for explanations for why they are as they are. Either one works.

First off, Jump Jets feel like they've lost power across the board in this patch. Their response feels sluggish and I get the distinct impression that I've lost height and distance on all chassis that have them. I'm having trouble clearing obstacles that I've typically been able to vault easily (walls in TC Mirage, for example), and the response time of the 'Mech on both takeoff and landing is noticeably slower than it was. The jump capable Mk IIs feel like they're barely clearing their own height if I'm moving forward at all. Additionally, JJ thrust will not recharge if the 'Mech is doing anything but standing still or moving forward on a flat surface. If I land on a hillside and begin sliding down it, the game appears to still think I'm "jumping" and won't begin to recharge them.

Second, base turrets are waaaaayy too accurate right now, and it feels like their range has been increased. I'm fine with the range increase (they needed it), but I'm tired of rolling up on a base in an Owens at full throttle and getting pegged in the head by a turret the moment I hit the 500 meter mark. Players aren't that accurate, so why should turrets be? The northernmost base on DV is the worst offender here, with that LBL turret on the east side. Conversely, however, the flak guns at those same bases seem to be incapable of hitting the broad side of a Shiva.

Next is the gorram rocks and other small-but-physical ground cover, particularly on Death Valley and Kagoshima. Those need to be made non-physical objects, or the way things interact with them needs to be changed. I actually hit one wrong in a Huit the other day on DV and rolled the tank. I've also lost more than a few firefights because my Warhammer stubs a toe one of them and immediately drops to zero throttle. Maybe this is intended design -I dunno. If it is, it's dumb intended design.

Point the fourth is Vultures. There's exactly one of them that's worth using right now -the SSRM boat- and it's stupidly OP again. It feels like all the balance issues it had in 0.3 are back again. The screen shake, the better damage, and now the improved contrails are blinding if it's firing at you in the front. I feel more and more that the Vulture is a case where baby-with-the-bathwater is necessary. The 'Mech needs to be rebalanced from the ground up and the dedicated boating configs need to be thrown out completely. Improve the armor values globally by about 15% and add half again as many heatsinks as it has now and it would be a perfectly viable mid-game Clan Heavy asset that would sit in the current pricing pocket just under the Thor and Loki.

The final one may actually be a bug, and that is the Uller's throttle drops to half seemingly at random. I suspect this is a terrain issue, as it doesn't occur as long as I'm running along a straight, flat, level surface -but the moment it hits any kind of terrain, it drops to half speed. This is most pronounced on Kagoshima and SA Jungle with their prevalent ground cover and uneven terrain. The Uller C seems to be slightly worse about this than the other models, but all of them have done it to me.




Oh, and also: I posted a bug report in the last patch about the game client disconnecting me every time I opened the menu from in-game. It's buried in the archives now, but the problem is still occurring in exactly the same manner as I described in that thread. I would STILL like a dev's thoughts on what might be causing the problem and how it might be solved. If it's something on my end, it's specific to either Crysis Wars or patch 0.4.0+, since those are the things that changed immediately before the issue began. I've done full reinstalls of everything (and updated from 0.4.x to 0.5.1 in the interim) relevant -the only thing I haven't checked yet is a network issue, but Crysis Wars alone does not have this problem.

EDIT: found the thread: http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/topic,12849.0.html
EXACTLY the same problem I described there, still occuring in 0.5.1
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There's a difference between constructive feedback and positive feedback. I will attempt the former, but until and unless there is a rule instituted that requires all feedback to be positive, I'm under no obligation to be nice. If you do something that sucks, I will tell you it sucks, and why, and mincing words or stroking egos over it only slows us both down.

Offline ELH_Vivicector

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Don't want to argue, but I can only agree about rocks. JJs and base turrets seems to be unchanged, throttle behaves strange because of landscape and it was so in 4.9. Mad Dog is not overpowered (in TSA and TC, in SA it is primed by other players in 90% cases), just a good specialisation.

Offline Arghy

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Eh theres another thread titled almost exactly the same no need to make another one

Offline Seraph

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No changes to JJs but thanks for all that feedback :)
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Offline (Wilson)

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Second, base turrets are waaaaayy too accurate right now, and it feels like their range has been increased. I'm fine with the range increase (they needed it), but I'm tired of rolling up on a base in an Owens at full throttle and getting pegged in the head by a turret the moment I hit the 500 meter mark. Players aren't that accurate, so why should turrets be? The northernmost base on DV is the worst offender here, with that LBL turret on the east side. Conversely, however, the flak guns at those same bases seem to be incapable of hitting the broad side of a Shiva.

Next is the gorram rocks and other small-but-physical ground cover, particularly on Death Valley and Kagoshima. Those need to be made non-physical objects, or the way things interact with them needs to be changed. I actually hit one wrong in a Huit the other day on DV and rolled the tank. I've also lost more than a few firefights because my Warhammer stubs a toe one of them and immediately drops to zero throttle. Maybe this is intended design -I dunno. If it is, it's dumb intended design.
 
......
 
The final one may actually be a bug, and that is the Uller's throttle drops to half seemingly at random. I suspect this is a terrain issue, as it doesn't occur as long as I'm running along a straight, flat, level surface -but the moment it hits any kind of terrain, it drops to half speed. This is most pronounced on Kagoshima and SA Jungle with their prevalent ground cover and uneven terrain. The Uller C seems to be slightly worse about this than the other models, but all of them have done it to me.

Sorry I cant address your other questions.. but the ones above -
 
Base Turrets - Turrets themselves were not changed.. Im sure there were various weapon and mech/vehicle tweaks done though, which is probably why it seems as though they are different. Other turret issues, such as accuracy etc we are aware of and working on. We have plans for the future which will address these problems in a number of ways.
 
Rocks - The small rock models that are on some maps we have no control over their physicalisation. They are crysis models, and we dont have access to the source models to alter them.. object physics in ce2 is something thats setup on models when they are made. Unfortunately the engine lacks a "disable physics" function for objects without doing nasty hacky and inefficient things :( ... we are looking at slowly replacing all crytek models that are in-use with our own, and these problem will be fixed at that time.
 
Throttle - Throttle drops are a known issue that are caused by mech-terrain collision and the way mechs work out where they can and cannot walk. A number of changes were made to address these issues already and are still being worked on to solve completely.
 
Im sorry I dont have a timeframe for these things, but rest assured they are being worked on and will be fixed/addressed as soon as possible. Also, thanx for the feedback :)
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Offline Ingrater

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EDIT: found the thread: http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/topic,12849.0.html
EXACTLY the same problem I described there, still occuring in 0.5.1

The problem with your bug report is, that we (the programmers) can not reproduce this bug. The first thing programmers need to fix something is a way to reproduce it. When I go to the ingame menu I don't get disconnected. So it has to be something connected to your local installation and or machine.
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Offline Straylight

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Rocks - The small rock models that are on some maps we have no control over their physicalisation. They are crysis models, and we dont have access to the source models to alter them.. object physics in ce2 is something thats setup on models when they are made. Unfortunately the engine lacks a "disable physics" function for objects without doing nasty hacky and inefficient things :( ... we are looking at slowly replacing all crytek models that are in-use with our own, and these problem will be fixed at that time.
Yeah, I had a feeling it was something like that. Any chance the next update could just see the stupid things removed until you have a workaround? I'm tired of tripping over the damn scenery.
 
Quote
Throttle - Throttle drops are a known issue that are caused by mech-terrain collision and the way mechs work out where they can and cannot walk. A number of changes were made to address these issues already and are still being worked on to solve completely.
I've very occasionally had the issue happen with other 'Mechs, but the Uller (particularly the Uller C) seem to have a much harder time than any other asset. This feels related to JJ landings and hitting steep inclined killing momentum and throttle. I get that CE2 physics are a bit on the floaty side, but is it possible to screw with mass and gravity on a scale other than map-wide?
 
Quote
Im sorry I dont have a timeframe for these things, but rest assured they are being worked on and will be fixed/addressed as soon as possible. Also, thanx for the feedback :)
No worries -I admire the dedication and heart you guys are putting into this fantastic project, and I'm willing to wait since I'm confident that what you'll have in the end is the definitive Battletech experience.

The problem with your bug report is, that we (the programmers) can not reproduce this bug. The first thing programmers need to fix something is a way to reproduce it. When I go to the ingame menu I don't get disconnected. So it has to be something connected to your local installation and or machine.
Which is why I'm trying to provide what information I can on the issue, and I'm willing to undergo any troubleshooting steps you guys are willing to throw at me. Just because it's not reproducible on your end doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. It could be a network thing, it could be a hardware thing... I know there's a hundred variables that can go wrong, but it's NOT a unique issue and frankly it's as close to a showstopper I've run into so far -DCing everytime I need to tab out or change a setting or mute voice chat because NotSo's getting whiny again is troublesome enough to make me not want to play.

At this point, I'll take wild left-field speculation. I'm no programmer, but I know my way around my machine well enough to follow any ideas you guys want to throw at me. Other than the version of MWLL changing since that thread went up (and the clean install that went with it, per the instructions), nothing else has been altered on my end.
If you get killed, try to scream a lot. That way I'll know I'm on my own.

A Note:
There's a difference between constructive feedback and positive feedback. I will attempt the former, but until and unless there is a rule instituted that requires all feedback to be positive, I'm under no obligation to be nice. If you do something that sucks, I will tell you it sucks, and why, and mincing words or stroking egos over it only slows us both down.

Offline Ingrater

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Did you already try to rename your My Games\Crysis Wars folder (which causes it to be re created) to see if it is a issue with your profiles?
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Offline =CJW= Zone Warden (W)

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I can kinda relate the Turret part of the OP/thread.

While their values may not have been changed it sure as hell feels like it. Perfect example is playing Mirage TC, the flat plains by the central un-walled base with the repair pad around d5 is always a brawling hot spot. So I park up in my tank to take some pot shots when I'm suddenly getting beam'd from somewhere. I turn to notice the Turret from the walled base on the IS side, roughly f5-6 I think, is hitting me dead on. I can remember fifty bazillion times before being sat in that spot and the turret not touching me because I'm pretty sure its well over 700 meters away? I may just be going slowly crazy but it was like that one turret had a personal vendetta against me, none of the others seemed to be as responsive nor as far reaching as that brutal little thing.

EDIT: And as for the Mad Dog thing, being a seriously dedicated Mad Dog player, nothing has been OP'd.
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Online Spooky

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Turrets are kind of buggy. Their range did not increase, however before 0.5 and even in 0.5 still, turrets sometimes won't fire at you, even though you are in a perfect line of sight within their range.

Offline CGB [CoffiNail]

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As with the terrain, learn to be aware of your surroundings? If I see a rock that is 2 meters big, I think I will avoid it, Run over to those 'small rocks' as a BA and you will see they are not that small.  The Tanks may have treads, but a Tank would still avoid a 2 meter high object I am sure.



Online Spooky

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As with the terrain, learn to be aware of your surroundings?

"Being aware of your surroundings" cannot really include small rocks, that appear at a close distance, especially during battle. And it is a bit ridiculous, that such a small rock can roll over a tank and send a light Mech flying trough the air for a short distance. But it will get fixed eventually anyway.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 08:31:50 PM by Spooky »

Offline =KoS= 37

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The menu issue you're having sounds really specific and it's hard for the Devs to have any clue how to fix a problem if it they can't even tell it's a problem, there's not much for them to do if none of them have it.  They can't really give you steps to try to fix it if they know nothing about it. 

I almost want to guess that it might be a (very obscure) issue with graphics drivers or hardware considering the menu is playing a movie at all times (unless it doesn't play that while you're ingame, I forgot).


A question to the Devs:
You guys changed the BA jets a bit right?  I noticed that I can no longer jet from on the railings in one mechbay to another next to it in one movement following this sort of path |_| , I pretty much have to land and jet twice.  Interesting little change, makes BA a bit less evasive.  I think it's helped me kill them easier, as they can't as easily change direction mid-air to dodge lasers.


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Online KingLeerUK

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Regarding JJ, we checked (really checked) and there have been no changes to them since 0.4.9
 
The Vulture is only being perceived as OP because people are seeing so much more of it in its native niche (close range brawling) within SA.  If anything we did dial down the missile shake from SRM a bit more for the 0.5.0 release.
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Online Spooky

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The Vulture is only being perceived as OP because people are seeing so much more of it in its native niche (close range brawling) within SA.

Not only that, it is also used more often since the SSRM tracking has been moved back to the client and thus it has a better visual feedback again.