Author Topic: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward  (Read 1340 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Priest

  • MWLL Contributor
  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 176
  • Karma: 18
  • Good.. bad.. I'm the guy with the gun.
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2011, 05:08:37 AM »
Perhaps not so much that MWL is slowing down; more like the typical ebb and flow of the community.  With the new mod, I'm sure we will see some old faces making appearances.

The team is working dilgently towards the release of 5.2, and it is on the horzizon.

Your patience is always greatly appreciated, and you have to keep in mind the summer months, like for everyone, are filled with vacations and other assorted events. The fall with school and new responsibilities.  The development has it's ebb and flow as well.  Also considering everyone here volunteers their time to the project, everyone has their lives to attend to now and then.

I'm not sure there has ever been talk of a monthly update, but I'll follow up on that and see what I can find out this weekend if there is any particular schedule they are trying to adhere to, but just the nature of any software development, you typically can't give a rigid timeline of releases, because you never know what's going to happen.  I can tell you it is never a boring job, no doubt!

I am working on trying to keep up with everything that is going on myself, and will see if I can get some more info out to everyone at the end of the weekend.



Offline Virt

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1323
  • Karma: 53
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2011, 10:33:00 AM »
Thanks Priest, it will be good to know how things are going and where we're headed.    Won't ask you to specify a milestone date though, because that's just unnecessary pressure for the dev team which they can I'm sure do without.

One great thing about the mod in its current form is that there are so many mechs and vehicles to explore, that if you push yourself to try different things, you can create your own variety and different ways of playing.
Creating Kodiak Moments since 1984.

Offline CGB [CoffiNail]

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1883
  • Karma: 97
  • S. Col. of Clan Ghost Bear 304th Assault Cluster
    • 304th Assault Cluster
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2011, 04:02:01 PM »
I think it was less of them saying monthly updates, and more of them claiming more frequent updates.

I hope it is on the horizon, My unit has gone from 12 members to if we are lucky 5 or 6.



Offline Askis

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1893
  • Karma: 38
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2011, 04:44:08 PM »
I actually saw the 'easier, more frequent updating' as a way to field-test some changes - ie: limit coolant for a couple weeks and just see what happens. If people hate it, bring it back... maybe an update with a few new loadouts and see what people think of them. Or fixing pulse lasers.

This.
Small incremental balance updates would help to show the players at large that there is still something going on, even with no added features.
And pushing out some entirely experimental updates to the beta testers might make it easier to find the sweet spots.

As an example, in the later pages of the Stone Rhino thread some people have been discussing the survivability of Assault Mechs, so you guys could release a 0.5.1.1 build which does nothing but increase the total armor of all Assaults by 10%.

Offline Defender

  • Creative Director
  • Lead Developer
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 3059
  • Karma: 9087
  • I Like Shiny Things
    • Patrick Salerno's Porfolio
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2011, 05:28:47 PM »
I'll be quite honest and forthright here for the sake of transparency and clarification.

First, I'd like to start with emphasis on the differences between Alpha and Beta. The things you guys are suggesting (smaller, more incremental changes to disrupt the ebb and flow of gameplay) is closer to Alpha than Beta.

Alpha is where we put experimental code, features, and assets into play. It's based on a server-filling core group of testers and Devs. Things that are in Alpha are concepts and ideas, and can sometimes be fairly unstable. We've finally got the game to a point where is fairly stable (more stable than the friggin BF3 beta anyway) and we don't want to alienate whatever playerbase we still have with bug-laden and unfinished/unoptimized code and assets which could lead to performance loss and/or crashing.

Beta is where we put nearly finished assets and feature-complete code in to test on a community scale. From there things can be balanced, adjusted, and optimized for gameplay and performance and larger-scale testing and bug reporting. For a single asset to reach Beta Status is has to go through the various phases (from Art Side) through multiple artists (each with their own real-life obligations) before it even reaches Alpha Status.

As artists, our assets can crash a game just as easily as code (hence the Thor and Huit for example, which is being redone for performance with the upcoming .52 release) and we have to be thorough before placing anything in-game that could potentially hurt player performance detrimentally. If we release something that hurts players, they'd expect an immediate rollback or patch update to rectify the issue, which means if we don't even know what the problem is yet, it won't be an immediate fix and would lead to resentment and frustration. It's easier to find and iron out these issues in Alpha than it is in Beta.

On that note, one reason it's easier to fix in Alpha than Beta is because we can update and revert our live builds at any time. The community cannot do this. For us to give an update, then decide we don't like it, we'd have to do a bunch of stuff I don't know much about, like creating a new build, adding another section to the SVN for versioning, and would make it even more time-consuming and issue-laden and pull resources from other projects. When a player (especially a new one) has to download 6 patches per-version, one after a another through the updater, they would get bored/angry/disenchanted with the process and it would leave a negative impression. 

Now, on a more cliché note, the main problem is that everyone has lives they have to attempt to to pay the bills and become educated in their pursuits. This mod can only be a full-time job when you have no job (been there, done that) and I do what I can to distribute assets in the most effective, and time-efficient method possible by understanding my artists, their skill levels, and their time-constraints. Now, even optimally, there is a large delay between the passing of assets between phases (such as Concept, Design, Modeling High, Modeling Low, UV Mapping, Baking Maps, Texturing Assets, Animating Assets, Creating LoD's/physics proxies/helpers/collision mesh and so forth). So, unless we acquire more artists (team member in general) we can only work so fast.

So, as you can see, there are various uncontrollable variables to game development (in a volunteer team especially), and slating asset release estimates is a fruitless effort that leads to a glimmer of hope in a sea of disappointment. We try and avoid that and despite the wait between patches (which we sincerely apologize for) we do our best to pump this stuff out as fast as possible, and as soon as something is done, we release it. We hate sitting on content any more than you hate waiting on content.

So please bear with us while we continue to develop the greatest Mechwarrior Game ever created.
Thanks for your patience and understanding.
"A Goal without Vision is a Hallucination"


"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

Offline Virt

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1323
  • Karma: 53
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2011, 06:40:26 PM »
Thanks Defender for that detailed answer, which really helps us understand the dev team's process and inherent limitations.    I'm totally onboard with your call for patience.
Creating Kodiak Moments since 1984.

Offline lexwolf

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 163
  • Karma: 8
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2011, 12:21:26 AM »
a special THANKS to Defender, too.
The Mod need's YOU - Did you DONATE?

Offline BlueT

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 191
  • Karma: 5
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2011, 08:40:17 AM »
Thank you, Priest  We look forward to new information on the direction the mod is headed in.
Old Guy

Offline Zippitt

  • MWLL Contributor
  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: 4
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2011, 06:55:38 PM »
Yes, please send more people to the recruitment page if you know anyone with talents too...the more people we have in the right places that happier everyone will be.

Offline Ressk [CSF]

  • Star Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 1183
  • Karma: 45
  • Khan of [CSF]
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2011, 08:05:15 PM »
thanks defender, shure puts some more perspective on things  ;D
Recruitment Page For CSF


click the pic /\
ULLER4LYFE! the internet hates CSF

Offline Askis

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1893
  • Karma: 38
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2011, 08:38:35 PM »
Thanks for the explanation Defender, but you seem to have missed my point a little (if you were referring to my post at all).

I fully understand that unfinished or buggy assets, be they Vehicles, Mechs, Maps, Gamemodes, large code changes, Particle effects or sounds, aren't released into the beta at large.
What I was suggesting was more along the lines of (the now dreaded) Funbocks.
Small changes to balance that do not require redownloading a full build.

Since Haarps changes are obviously server-side, one of the official MWLL servers (that are sadly empty most of the time) could be labeled the "Official Test Server" and run some slight balancing changes for two weeks or three, just to gather feedback on what works and what doesn't.

It just seems to me as though us beta testers don't really deserve the name if all balancing is done within the alpha tests, so all we can do is run the crashlogs and hopr we stumble upon something to report.  :-[

Offline Mekabuser=12thVR=

  • Star Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 799
  • Karma: 40
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2011, 10:49:21 PM »
Yes, please send more people to the recruitment page if you know anyone with talents too...the more people we have in the right places that happier everyone will be.
this.... and this again.

Offline Cloudburst

  • Star Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 1026
  • Karma: 30
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2011, 05:02:44 PM »


Since Haarps changes are obviously server-side, one of the official MWLL servers (that are sadly empty most of the time) could be labeled the "Official Test Server" and run some slight balancing changes for two weeks or three, just to gather feedback on what works and what doesn't.



Dev team, please do this. Good idea it is.
When will full game/demo/beta be released?
         We're planning a beta release in the next *very* few weeks. At this time, we can't be more specific. Please stop asking.

No, I will not stop asking.

Offline Frostiken

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1909
  • Karma: 194
Re: Wondering about the update frequency plan going forward
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2011, 08:10:54 PM »
Agreed. I think, basically, beta testers need to feel more involved in the process. Give us more frequent patches that involve changes to game code, not giant maps and mechs or require us to redownload the whole damn mod for the 50th time. Let us field test ideas, rather than doing it all behind closed door.



Seriously guys - I promise people aren't going to quit the game en masse because your patch changes CLRMs :/