Author Topic: Best way to counter Shivas ?  (Read 4208 times)

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Offline Virt

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Best way to counter Shivas ?
« on: October 07, 2011, 07:37:24 PM »
A couple of times lately I've been in a close fought contest, with tickets roughly equal and the counter showing about 10 minutes to go.

And then a Shiva or two takes to the skies.  And from that point, it's been pretty much 'game over' for the ground-based forces, asthe team with the Shivas has raced ahead to victory. 

From a mech pilots perspective the Shivas are invisible on radar as they dive straight down, suddenly instagib something, turn on the spot, climb back up, flip over... rinse and repeat.    You can't aim high enough to hit them, except for that brief moment at the end of their run.  And they're so resiient that you can pew-pew away at them for quite some time before you bring one down.

Anyway, this post is not to complain about the existence of Shivas.     It's just to ask "what is the best way to counter a rampaging Shiva?"     Is there a particular mech, or tank or other asset something which can down a Shiva in a couple of passes ... same as the Shiva can gib a Mech in a couple of passes?     

Is there any way to win that game without getting into a Shiva yourself and doing to the opposition what they're doing to your team...?

Advice appreciated, thanks!
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Offline =KoS= Tripod

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 07:44:47 PM »
I think Shivas are the only planes that can actually get shot down by AA tanks, so use them ;)

Also, LBX Scat and it's glitched torso pitch works well against anything
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Offline SquareSphere }12thVR{

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 07:46:16 PM »
My question would be "which shiva?"
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Offline Virt

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2011, 07:46:56 PM »
I think Shivas are the only planes that can actually get shot down by AA tanks, so use them ;)
Which one?   I tried Huit with the AC5s and 2s but the Shiva just divebombed and gibbed me as I poured slugs into it.   (I'm not sure how badly I damaged it, but i know it got me before I got it LOL).


Regarding 'which Shiva', sorry, I'm not sure.   (I seem to recall lots of lasers, and also Thunderbolts which gibbed me.  I also saw one drop four firebombs at once on some poor bastard.)      Do the counters vary significantly for the different variants of Shivas?   
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Offline SquareSphere }12thVR{

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2011, 07:48:25 PM »
RAC2 party works for me most of the time.  I've shot down tons of Shiva's with it. 
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Offline =KoS= Tripod

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2011, 07:52:20 PM »
@Virt

Oh, thought you were talking about the LBX Shiva

I rarely see any other Shiva as they either suck or are hella expensive
If the FBomb Shiva managed to take you out before you took it out you were probably on a really enclosed map (Mirage, Kago, Extremity, etc) where it only exposes itself for a second. In this case, LBX Scat all day. The LBX 20 will fapp up most Shivas enough in the brief moment you can shoot them to make them change their minds, and JJs let you hop out of the way of the splash or potentially into the Shiva if it's flying low enough
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Offline sleet01

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2011, 08:00:37 PM »
I, too, find AAA tanks to be ineffectual against Shivas, and this is with proper leading, getting tons of hits, and maintaining continuous fire by allowing weapons to cool intermittently.  In my experience the Huit is a much better anti-mech platform than it is an ack-ack machine.  I've gotten far more aircraft kills with the LBX-20 Shadowcat, CHLs, or gauss weapons than I have with the high-ROF "anti-aircraft" guns.

When I *fly* Shivas, it's not the RAC2s or the LBX-5s that get me, it's the ace CGauss snipers.  I'll be flying along and then *wham*, half my wing is gone.  LBX-20s to the face also suck.

Offline =KoS= Saber15

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 08:04:46 PM »
Noisy Crickets and RACmoths.

In the case of the Noisy Cricket, ride on their ass and pewpew at them with the LBXes. Or just ram them / fly above them and push them into the ground. Either works just as well.

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Offline Waffnuffly

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2011, 08:06:15 PM »
The best way to take down a Shiva is another Shiva: the Shiva E :T

And by best I mean most fun, not necessarily most effective (especially if the enemy Shiva is also a Shiva E)

Offline Steelbarrage

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2011, 08:06:43 PM »
Huit prime works fine.
If you are watching out for a shiva you only watch for aero, not plinking away at mechs.
If you scan and zoom and repeat you should be able to see them out to 1500 m.
Also the 90 degree divebomb is a little cheesy but the instant uturn back into the sky is uber cheesy and abusing the engine physics.
If you dont feel like aa then scat b fills the double roll great.

Offline =KoS= Saber15

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2011, 08:18:06 PM »
Huit prime works fine.
If you are watching out for a shiva you only watch for aero, not plinking away at mechs.
If you scan and zoom and repeat you should be able to see them out to 1500 m.
Also the 90 degree divebomb is a little cheesy but the instant uturn back into the sky is uber cheesy and abusing the engine physics.
If you dont feel like aa then scat b fills the double roll great.
Huit is next to worthless on maps like Kagoshima and some parts of Mirage. The Shiva can pop up, blast off a salvo of LRMs or LBXes, then scoot back under cover in seconds.

"Concentrate on the moment, each moment is its own reality. It has a particular thisness. You can't predict, but you can explain. Or try. If you are observant, and lucky, you can say, this is why this is happening! It's very interesting!"

Offline Frostiken

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2011, 08:18:32 PM »
Things I want, in no particular order, that would be nice to have instead of just ridiculous damage bonuses or something. Basically ITP: Ideas.

- Aircraft damage affects flying. The hallmark of AA is that you get most of your points from shooting mechs - the AA loadouts only do so much damage and generally, unless you come across a sloppy pilot, you're forced to plink away at aircraft until they notice their armor is yellow and they just spaz out with the mouse making them impossible to hit and fly away. I'm not saying kills are impossible, but dying to AA tanks is pretty hard for an experienced pilot. If aircraft section damage dramatically affected the flight performance of an aircraft, it would be much harder for them to do as they are currently capable of doing and simply shake off the AA fire to bomb a mech and then escape at max burner pulling 20G S-turns with their wings held on by just wiring.

- AA tanks equipped with weapon convergence logic so your rounds aren't trying to converge at infinity and sends 99% of your shots around an aircraft. Hitting a Sulla at long range from the side aspect is pretty much impossible. Shivas are nice targets though, as soon as they turn it's almost impossible to miss them.

- AA tanks came equipped with a mix of weapons to really make them effective, such as a single LB-10X, specifically to cause extreme burst damage to aircraft at closer ranges, to serve as an effective ward against aircraft flying DEAD (destruction of enemy air defense) sorties, or to provide means of actually damaging aircraft who are using terrain masking.

- Aircraft-specific weapons instead of mech-mounted weapons. Non-canon, perhaps, but this is sort of why you only see the same handful of aircraft used over and over, because mech-mounted weapons just aren't made for ASF use. Also in this, changes to current aircraft-specific weapons to let aircraft fill different roles besides griefing individual mechs.

- Aircraft physics fixed enough to allow effective dogfighting besides Shiva E aerial instagib (which, face it, isn't dogfighting). If pilots were encouraged to actually fight other pilots beyond Shiva trolling, it would solve a lot of problems.

- Changes to sensor rules. Seriously, an 80T flying battleship shouldn't really be able to just disappear from radar even when it's in plain sight. Mechs can do that because of ground clutter and other things that make them harder to pick up - an aircraft in empty air would be almost impossible to hide from a mech's sensors.


Anyway, yeah. I have to echo the sentiment that AA duty vs. aircraft itself isn't very rewarding. In terms of raw kills, I've gotten far, far more kills with the THORYUKEN maneuver than with AA tanks.

Offline CGB [CoffiNail]

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2011, 08:38:39 PM »
Take ASF end game?


It is kind of a down and dirty tactic, grabbing a Beat Stick shiva last ten minutes. By the time a AA can roll out the damage has been done.  I really like the LBX20 SCAT as tripod said. IF you are lucky and someone grabs a noisy cricket, or you die and grab one I really like eating shiva's with that noisy cricket... as long as ground forces leave you alone :D



Offline TwinkleToes

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2011, 08:47:21 PM »
The best way to kill air in a non-organized game is to get in the air yourself.  The Sparrowhawk B is probably the best aa plane, it can take a shiva down easily if you can hide from the shiva's first pass.  It's a bit of a learning curve to figure out how/when/what angle, but it's worth it!

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Re: Best way to counter Shivas ?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2011, 08:56:12 PM »
AA tanks like the Huit Prime are very effective against Shivas, because you can hardly miss. The only difficulty is when a stealthy Shiva ambushes and instakills you before you have time to shoot. Keep your eyes firmly on the skies if you know Shivas (or Sullas) with firebombs and such are around.

Also, LBX Scat and it's glitched torso pitch works well against anything

Wait... what glitched torso pitch?
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