Author Topic: CCP: Beginning to understand?  (Read 421 times)

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Offline CHHš Aethon

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CCP: Beginning to understand?
« on: October 08, 2011, 09:13:13 AM »
New dev blog from the HMFIC over at CCP: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672

I am not sold yet, honestly; it sounds like this is only being said due to the subscription drop they just experienced.  Time will tell, of course, but still think I will wait a couple expansions before I even consider going back.  I think that will be enough time to see if they stick with it, or if it is merely a ruse to reclaim some of their subscribers.

What about you lot?  Optimistic?  Not sold?  Curious?
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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2011, 09:42:24 AM »
It's not very common when someone so high in such a successful company steps up and says "I was wrong. I messed up. I'm gonna fix it." They could have stick with their decisions and soldiered on, taking the loss of subscriptions and assuming they'd make it back up with all the other games they're going to come out with, so it's pretty nice to see such an apology and a reassessment of their plans for the future.

I'm not a subscriber of EVE though. I played on 2 trial accounts, bought a single month of gametime, and had a friend give me some playtime as well, but I've never subscribed. EVE is interesting to me, but I can't seem to get into it enough.

Now DUST514, that's a game I'm looking forward to. Not because it's some new, shiny pseudo-mmo shooter, but because of the prospect of it's affect on EVE itself. That is, if they manage to deliver on the hype.


Offline Mitchpate

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2011, 01:36:57 PM »
It's not very common when someone so high in such a successful company steps up and says "I was wrong. I messed up. I'm gonna fix it." They could have stick with their decisions and soldiered on, taking the loss of subscriptions and assuming they'd make it back up with all the other games they're going to come out with, so it's pretty nice to see such an apology and a reassessment of their plans for the future.
I don't think you understand just how many people quit over their recent actions.  I don't know exact numbers but they lost ALOT of a longtime subscribers and many are in the "will never go back again" category.  It was in the the same failure category as the SW Galaxies combat system overhaul and just like them I don't think the game will ever fully recover from it.
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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 08:24:08 PM »
You're right; I don't know the scale of the losses. I have a few friends that currently play EVE, and they do say they're unhappy with all the recent goings-on, but only one of them has actually stopped playing because of it.

It's funny you brought up SW Galaxies, because that's exactly the comparison I was thinking of. In the case of Galaxies everyone in the company, from LucasArts representatives Nancy Macintyre and Julio Torres, to numerous developers, all the way to the head of SOE John Smedley himself argued that the changes were necessary to "truly attract a crowd worthy of Star Wars" (and then later, "because of the declining subscription base" haha). The only mention they messed up at all was when SOE got the game Vanguard by consuming Sigil Games. And that game really bombed anyway.

You're right, the damage could be unrepairable at this point, and EVE will now decline into obscurity, but CCP is obviously attempting to make an effort at appeasing and apologizing. Which is more than can be said for what happened with Galaxies.


Offline Mitchpate

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2011, 12:17:02 AM »
Which is more than can be said for what happened with Galaxies.
Yeah they pretty much said live with it or leave and, well, yeah that didn't go over so well lol.  SOE never admits to failures or mistakes.  In fact, Sony in general seems to twist every mistake or failure they have into a positive light.  Eventually it just gets old.

It could recover if cards were played correctly but EVE was already on a pretty steady decline anyway and things like this sure don't help.
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Offline sleepysheep

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2011, 01:26:32 AM »
I haven't played EVE in a while, so can someone sum up exactly what CCP did that completly ruined the game that everyone decided to leave? I didn't quite understand from the Dev blog.
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Offline CHHš Aethon

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2011, 10:37:12 AM »
Ok, here is the scoop.  CCP has promised, and until now, delivered, some sort of expansion every six months.  Over the past two years, they have been getting smaller and smaller, and also more and more useless.

Incarna was supposed to be people mingling in bars, actually seeing each other's avatars, and the ability to actually DO things there; all we have is a single room that no one else will ever see, with no customization, and nothing new to do there.  It also consumes a great deal of resources; I get better framerates playing MWLL than I did walking around in the captain's quarters, and I run MWLL on high settings.  So, complete fail.

Then you have the "Noble Exchange".  This is their macrotransaction store; we already were paying for subscriptions, and a lot of people even bought ISK with real money (legally, by purchasing game time cards, then selling them for ISK).  Apparently, this was not enough.  Also, you will notice I called these macrotransactions; that is because a t-shirt cost 20 US Dollars, roughly.  When people complained, the CEO essentially told everyone to shut up, because that is what t-shirts cost in real life.

A second part of the "Noble Exchange" is the ability to purchase painted ships.  Note that this is not a paint job you purchase for a ship you own; you pay real money, and a ship of your choice, painted the way you want, spawns in your hangar.  This was not implemented yet, but was clearly stated as being implemented this way in the near future.  Some ships in EVE are vastly more powerful than others, and those ships are typically rare; people who farm up the loyalty points to get the blueprints for them, then farm the mats to manufacture them, are now being completely cut out of the loop by this.  No one will need the ISK or time investment to own and fly these ships; therefore, pay-to-win was going to be implemented.  Also, the economy is the cornerstone of the game; this effectively bypassed it.

Nullsec/lowsec.  The lower security areas of space are being changed by CCP, but CCP does not seem to have any idea how things work there; the changes they are making are rather idiotic, and I have yet to speak with anyone (and I mean ANYONE) who actually likes the changes.  The changes brought about in Dominion effectively broke up a few alliances, because no one felt like going through their entire area of space and re-doing all the sovereignty crap they instated.

Balance.  There are a great many balance changes that have been needed for years, but have been ignored.  Take railguns for example.  They take almost as much energy to fire as a comparable laser, but roughly half the firepower.  In order to get decent firepower, they have to load antimatter charges, which halve their range, and they STILL cannot come close to the laser's firepower.  They also track horribly slowly, and cannot hit anything at close range, unless it is a large target that is being held in place, or stationary targets.  They also take 10 seconds to change ammunition types; lasers change crystals instantly.  Again, this is just one example of something that needs adjustment, but has not received it in years.

I could probably think of some other things, but I am beta testing SWTOR, and my companion just got back from a mission I sent him on, so I am going to go kill more stuff now.
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Offline sleepysheep

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2011, 06:00:02 PM »
Ok, here is the scoop.  CCP has promised, and until now, delivered, some sort of expansion every six months.  Over the past two years, they have been getting smaller and smaller, and also more and more useless.

Incarna was supposed to be people mingling in bars, actually seeing each other's avatars, and the ability to actually DO things there; all we have is a single room that no one else will ever see, with no customization, and nothing new to do there.  It also consumes a great deal of resources; I get better framerates playing MWLL than I did walking around in the captain's quarters, and I run MWLL on high settings.  So, complete fail.

Then you have the "Noble Exchange".  This is their macrotransaction store; we already were paying for subscriptions, and a lot of people even bought ISK with real money (legally, by purchasing game time cards, then selling them for ISK).  Apparently, this was not enough.  Also, you will notice I called these macrotransactions; that is because a t-shirt cost 20 US Dollars, roughly.  When people complained, the CEO essentially told everyone to shut up, because that is what t-shirts cost in real life.

A second part of the "Noble Exchange" is the ability to purchase painted ships.  Note that this is not a paint job you purchase for a ship you own; you pay real money, and a ship of your choice, painted the way you want, spawns in your hangar.  This was not implemented yet, but was clearly stated as being implemented this way in the near future.  Some ships in EVE are vastly more powerful than others, and those ships are typically rare; people who farm up the loyalty points to get the blueprints for them, then farm the mats to manufacture them, are now being completely cut out of the loop by this.  No one will need the ISK or time investment to own and fly these ships; therefore, pay-to-win was going to be implemented.  Also, the economy is the cornerstone of the game; this effectively bypassed it.

Nullsec/lowsec.  The lower security areas of space are being changed by CCP, but CCP does not seem to have any idea how things work there; the changes they are making are rather idiotic, and I have yet to speak with anyone (and I mean ANYONE) who actually likes the changes.  The changes brought about in Dominion effectively broke up a few alliances, because no one felt like going through their entire area of space and re-doing all the sovereignty crap they instated.

Balance.  There are a great many balance changes that have been needed for years, but have been ignored.  Take railguns for example.  They take almost as much energy to fire as a comparable laser, but roughly half the firepower.  In order to get decent firepower, they have to load antimatter charges, which halve their range, and they STILL cannot come close to the laser's firepower.  They also track horribly slowly, and cannot hit anything at close range, unless it is a large target that is being held in place, or stationary targets.  They also take 10 seconds to change ammunition types; lasers change crystals instantly.  Again, this is just one example of something that needs adjustment, but has not received it in years.

I could probably think of some other things, but I am beta testing SWTOR, and my companion just got back from a mission I sent him on, so I am going to go kill more stuff now.

Ah the microtranactions, I remember reading about everyone's dooms day tales of how it would ruin the game and they would add crazy shit to the game. And wow they was actually right.

Well I can see why people would be pissed, it sounds like they managed to make the game even worse and more pointless than before :( Sad Panda.

Ah well, I'm sure another amazing space MMORPG is just around the corner...
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Offline CHHš Aethon

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 04:40:45 AM »
Is there another space MMO around the corner?  And no, SWTOR does not count (the space combat felt cool, but there is not much of it at the moment, and it is too basic and arcadey, with no real ship fitting system).

I really hope there is...I need something to tide me over until Infinity comes out.  I have rather high hopes for that game.
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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 06:25:02 AM »
I've been waiting for Jumpgate: Evolution for like, ever. But that's tied up in legal battles.

For now, check out Black Prophecy and their friggen sweet E3 2010 trailer.
Note: I have not yet played it.


Offline CHHš Aethon

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 08:55:35 AM »
I beta tested Black Prophecy; I was not impressed.  You have full 720 degree control, but all you get is a fighter.  You will not be controlling capital ships, unless they add that later on.

The weapons felt nice, etc, and you can juke and jive, strafe horizontally and vertically (based on your current orientation), etc.  It has a BSG-sort of feel, really.  The downside being I have never enjoyed fighter sims, aside from the occasional WWII fighter sim.  I like the larger, slower, more cumbersome ships with the heavy armor and bigger guns, because you have to think five steps ahead to decide when and how to maneuver; 'seat of the pants' maneuvering and firing does not work there.  The crafting system for it totally blows, too; they might as well not even have one.
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Offline CHHš Aethon

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 09:07:17 AM »
Come to think of it Battletech space combat has never seen the light of day on a PC game.  Hell, even a Battletech mod of Sins of a Solar Empire would rock.
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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2011, 09:10:18 AM »
Oh.


Well that's all really too bad, I was kinda looking forward to playing it too...


Offline CHHš Aethon

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2011, 09:41:41 AM »
Yeah...I went into it hoping for capital ship stuff, but the coolest part of the game is simply fighting alongside them (there is a HUGE battle right at the end of the tutorial bit that is really epic, and really cool, but that seems to be the climax, from what I saw).
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Offline [IPA] Taltos

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Re: CCP: Beginning to understand?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2011, 09:56:44 AM »
Yeah, what Aethon said. I installed and played it a while back, it really sucks. Guess I was just too disappointed that you'll always stay in your one small fighter. Also, the "story" missions (at least in the beginning section) are not really innovative. I was not impressed, and I don't think this will change.