Since when was this World of Tanks ?

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

Auralius, are you able to confirm or deny that tanks are worth more cbills to kill now, as the total number of health on them has increased?

[Frostiken]

It never was, its a combined arms game. 

Do any of you saying that actually understand what that means? Can you really say Demolishers have a totally unique, pivotal role on the battlefield? If you played a game where nobody used any non-AA tanks, would you actually notice?

Mechs and battle tanks aren't really different enough in any sort of role or niche to qualify as being different parts of 'combined arms'. If anything, the sensor suites, jumpjets, and better speed and maneuverability means mechs should completely supersede tanks altogether in any Battletech-era military that can afford them. Cost and availability are the only real reasons I can imagine any military still using them, neither of which are serious issues in MWLL.

Think about how different assets work in real life, in ArmA, and Battlefield - you'll see that infantry, helicopters, aircraft, tanks, all have unique roles. Helicopters are good for supporting infantry and ground units, but are very vulnerable to anti-aircraft and air attacks. Infantry are needed to support tanks, since tanks cannot really hold towns and cities and are very vulnerable in close fighting. Infantry aren't going to do good against entrenched defenses, so you use aircraft or tanks to compromise them. Combined arms means these units work together and flex their individual strengths while protecting each others' weaknesses.

"Combined arms" is not some buzzword that just means 'lots of different-looking things to shoot at'. It's not as if we have anti-mech and anti-tank munitions, and your average player is running around with an assault rifle killing soft infantry - everyone's in a tank, whether it walks or rolls, it's still effectively a tank - and they shoot other tanks.

[Cloudburst]

Coming from StarSiege, where the Dreadlock and Predator tanks were the most respectable and deadly vehicles in the game, I have no issues with tanks being capable or popular.

[ELH_Vivicector]

Right now, tanks are spammed because of their new hull system. They just work in a new way, so people try them out.

I have not played enough on public to judge, are tanks OP or not. But they look rather powerful.

I believe, we can really say something  about the balance in a week or so, when people will get used to new system, find better ways to kill tanks...

[[CW]Aresye]

It never was, its a combined arms game. 

Do any of you saying that actually understand what that means? Can you really say Demolishers have a totally unique, pivotal role on the battlefield? If you played a game where nobody used any non-AA tanks, would you actually notice?

Mechs and battle tanks aren't really different enough in any sort of role or niche to qualify as being different parts of 'combined arms'. If anything, the sensor suites, jumpjets, and better speed and maneuverability means mechs should completely supersede tanks altogether in any Battletech-era military that can afford them. Cost and availability are the only real reasons I can imagine any military still using them, neither of which are serious issues in MWLL.

Think about how different assets work in real life, in ArmA, and Battlefield - you'll see that infantry, helicopters, aircraft, tanks, all have unique roles. Helicopters are good for supporting infantry and ground units, but are very vulnerable to anti-aircraft and air attacks. Infantry are needed to support tanks, since tanks cannot really hold towns and cities and are very vulnerable in close fighting. Infantry aren't going to do good against entrenched defenses, so you use aircraft or tanks to compromise them. Combined arms means these units work together and flex their individual strengths while protecting each others' weaknesses.

"Combined arms" is not some buzzword that just means 'lots of different-looking things to shoot at'. It's not as if we have anti-mech and anti-tank munitions, and your average player is running around with an assault rifle killing soft infantry - everyone's in a tank, whether it walks or rolls, it's still effectively a tank - and they shoot other tanks.

...and to add on to that, games like Arma have a very basic rock/paper/scissors balance that forces different units to rely on teammates to accomplish the job.  MWLL seems to go in and out of that balance.

The way I see it, it should be Mechs > Tanks > ASF > Mechs

I made some posts earlier how the VTOL doesn't really have a place within this balance, and could fill in for an anti-armor role, effectively making the balance look like:

Mechs > VTOLs > Tanks > ASF > Mechs

The issue I've seen with armor in the past, and with the current update, is it seems tanks are becoming a very jack of all trades type of asset, effectively making the balance:

Mechs = Tanks > ASF and VTOL > Mechs

Tanks don't really have to fear any asset.  An LBX Demo can laugh at the fact he can dominate mechs, ASF, VTOLs, and BA.

Some tanks were weak against a good BA player, but with an added component I can't see a BA living long enough to take out a tank before getting killed by the tank or another unit.

[Waffnuffly]

A BLOO BLOO BLOO I PLAYED TWO GAMES AND MY BUSHY GOT KILLED BY A DEMOLISHER AND THREE MORE PEOPLE WERE ALSO USING THEM THE DEVS RUINED MY GAME EXPERIENCE AND THUS MY WHOLE LIFE, GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD

Shut your crybaby mouths you whiny, self-entitled children Tanks badly needed this system. It's also BRAND NEW and likely to be rebalanced later on once people find problems with it (who knows, maybe the tanks will end up needing to be buffed even more?). It's impossible to say for sure what will happen next without a few weeks of solid play experience, at the very least. But I definitely don't find these tanks overpowered, and that's from someone who really likes Demos. This isn't going to devolve into a battlefield littered with tanks, and if it does, you can still kill them just fine if you get a Thanny D and circle-strafe while hammering them with DSRM-6s. Just like before.

1. Turning is WAY HARDER now when you go down steep hills. On Kagoshima, I had a hell of a time navigating in a Demo. I had to apply my brake constantly, and I rammed into trees a few times. The hull system isn't the only thing that's changed; maneuverability tweaks have made tanks a little tougher to drive in some situations, which is fine. It means you have to pay attention to what you're doing just as much as before, if not a little more.

2. Losing your turret DOES suck, even if you can still shoot. It rotates slower and you're still at risk of death, because the Hull component isn't as strong on its own as the turret is at full health. So killing the turret, assuming you only aim for the turret (which is stupid since the turret isn't even the biggest part of the tank), means you're more than half way to a kill, and you've made it harder for the tank to track you to boot.

3. The best tanks cost more. I think all the Demos went up in price. For example, the Demo B with dual LBX20s now costs enough that you can't buy it at the 75000 rank. You need at least 80000 to afford it.

I really love these changes. I also love the new engine sounds for tanks! Great stuff. My beloved Demo B just got even more fun to use. Oh, and that RAC5 Demo is a MURDER MACHINE now, holy hellfire.

Tanks don't really have to fear any asset.  An LBX Demo can laugh at the fact he can dominate mechs, ASF, VTOLs, and BA.

While this is true, you have to be a REALLY bad VTOL pilot to get killed by the LBX Demo :p

[Come and See]

This is like a repeat of 0.4. The reason you're seeing so many Demo's now is because there's not enough cash available, they get armor buffed again, and are cheap assault-vehicles. It will all go away once the banking system or money cap is raised.

[[CW]Outlaw]

Here is my thought, The Hull system should be treated as Internal Structure, and therefore have different probabilities that if you get hit in an area with no armor left, and it does damage to the Hull, it should have a chance to knock something out. I.E. if you get hit in the turret and the armor is gone, you should have a chance at the turret locking in place or a random weapon in the turret being shut down.

As it is, there are no way to disarm tanks anymore where as a mech can have its arms and torso destroyed along with the corresponding weapons in that location. Tanks no longer have this disadvantage, and with a practically doubled lifespan the reduced speed and maneuverability are moot points, as no matter how much damage they receive they will always be able to throw every weapon they have back at you.

The most problematic section for this is definitely in the start where Light mechs are much less durable than tanks, making it almost absurd to even want to take a mech out in the field against an enemy stacking tanks.

In General a decent idea, but horrible execution.

[KingLeerUK]

So, we're testing a new feature.
 
So glad that there are open minds that are willing to understand that even now we are still in a beta test phase (extended, for sure) and that some features may only be implemented partially, or even in a provisional nature.
 
Sometimes this community leaves me in awe with its willingness to be flexible and know what we are up against for every release.

And then sometimes, not.

[SquareSphere }12thVR{]

I wouldn't worry about it Leer, there's always someone throwing fits every release.

hah I remember back in 0.1 - 0.2 how much tanks rocked (op).  the 4xRAC2 parti could core ANYTHING in short order and the Demo prime could fling it's shells out all the way to the horizons

[DFDelta]

I wouldn't worry about it Leer, there's always someone throwing fits every release.

hah I remember back in 0.1 - 0.2 how much tanks rocked (op).  the 4xRAC2 parti could core ANYTHING in short order and the Demo prime could fling it's shells out all the way to the horizons

And due to the lower armor levels a single BA could finish off mechs in a time that would make BAs of today drool of jealousy. Not to mention the lag shield BAs had.


Good times. 

[=KoS= Saber15]

Tanks don't really have to fear any asset.  An LBX Demo can laugh at the fact he can dominate mechs, ASF, VTOLs, and BA.

LBX demo is vulnerable to LRM Shivas, laser Sullas, ramming Sparrowhawks (even if it's destroyed, the debris will smash into the tank), and dive bombing Sullas. BA that avoid the 2 LBX shots can walk right up to the tank and start covering it with C8s, then murder the shit out of the driver when he hops out to hit the BA.

[CGB [CoffiNail]]

You know... was the Demolisher not in lore a VERY scary tank... most mech pilots shit their shorts when they see one. The Tanks job IS to KILL mechs

Tall, squat, and using four treads, the Demolisher has a well-earned, though sometimes exaggerated, reputation as one of the most deadly vehicles on the battlefield. Designed to counteract the increasing scarcity of 'Mechs during the Succession Wars, the Demolisher became popular, especially on worlds where BattleMechs were not available.
Aldis designed the Demolisher to be able to destroy any 'Mech, which was what appealed to the customers. The initial run was well-received, with hundreds of Demolishers being bought by 'Mech-deficient planets.

[Defender]

Leer is right though.

There's a dash of ironic hypocrisy here where no more than a few threads ago people were complaining that we didn't release enough changes that weren't complete in an effort to spike up balance so they could test in-development features for us.

So what do we do? We incorporate a feature that isn't complete, to gauge reactions and balance, and then people come out of the woodwork and say we broke the game because we're testing things in a beta environment while they expect release quality finalized features.

...and you wonder why we don't release unfinished assets and features for you to play with.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[CGB [CoffiNail]]

Know what will be worse, when they put in a new ASF.. then you will go through all that again for months on end.