Nerf beam lasers?!?!

[Frostiken]

Okay, weird brainstorm... I've been thinking about the different lasers we have - pulse, heavy, beam, and X-pulse...

I can't say anything really negative about X-pulses. Frankly, I don't really use them often enough to say anything. The most I use them is on the MRM Raven and results are pretty impressive. They generate very little heat and do decent DPS. I generally find them to be pretty effective.

Regular pulse lasers, however... mmm... smalls are fun to use and do some great DPS, but on the other hand, larges, especially CLAN LPLs, generate so much heat it's unmanageable. Only a handful of chassis effectively mount them, and the few that do so effectively are also filled to the brim with heatsinks.

Heavy lasers recently received some, in my opinion, totally unnecessary nerfs. I have no idea what their problem was before, but they were used very infrequently. Since the nerfs they've basically disappeared from the game altogether.

So, beam lasers. Beam lasers seem to be thought of as the de-facto 'standard' to which other lasers are measured, and I wonder "why?". The only real conclusion I keep reaching is that beam lasers are way too good compared to other lasers, and it might not be because they other lasers aren't lethal enough, but rather beam lasers are just too damn efficient.

In terms of accuracy, narrow window of engagement, range, damage / heat ratio, and even weight and size demands, beam lasers come out on top more often than not. Mostly I think this is a consequence of how you think about lasers - instead of each laser type having its own strength and weakness, it seems beam lasers are the 'jack of all trades' laser, with the pulse / heavy variants being gimmicky knockoffs.

Ultimately, rather than see pulse lasers having their heat reduced, or seeing heavy laser damage buffed, what if we just nerfed beam and X-pulse lasers to be in-line with their less-useful cousins? The most obvious fix to me would be to just increase beam laser discharge time to 1 full second...

Thoughts? Moans? Flames? Baseless ad hominem attacks?

[Spooky]

Hm, generally I think that XPLs, HLs and BLs are fine, I don't necessarily think, that the BLs are too efficient. But I do feel, that regular PLs are somewhat lacking, in all their forms. Their properties just do not stand out, or give any real, situational advantage over BLs or HLs.

I can't say anything really negative about X-pulses. Frankly, I don't really use them often enough to say anything. The most I use them is on the MRM Raven and results are pretty impressive. They generate very little heat and do decent DPS. I generally find them to be pretty effective.

Are you sure you have not been playing only on cold maps with the MRM Raven? During a prolonged brawl, it will struggle to keep the heat down, if you want to keep firing those XPLs and MRMs.

[CGB [CoffiNail]]

Are you sure you have not being playing only on cold maps with the MRM Raven? During a prolonged brawl, it will struggle to keep the heat down, if you want to keep firing those XPLs and MRMs.

Frostiken does not play he just trolls with past information.

[Frostiken]

It's toasty, I know, but I usually do hit-and-fade with it. This also sounds nuts but I also put the XPLs in chain fire. Trades a little bit of damage for heat efficiency. Better than firing one, not as good as firing two. Try it sometime.

Heavy lasers, no exaggeration, I've seen maybe less than a dozen times since their nerf. Honestly, even before them, the only mechs they ever really saw use on was the Puma Troll Variant. Maybe it didn't help that they were mostly mounted on anemic variants, but seriously I've not seen SHLs or MHLs used in aaaaages.

The only time they ever seen to be used is on the Siege Engine or the Scalpel... and even then, I personally find the other Morrigu variants better just because of the enormous window of engagement you need to use the Scalpel without the heatsinks exploding instantly.


I'm mostly upset though with the combined ATM *and* heavy laser nerf which completely ruined my favorite Thor variant.

[Frostiken]

Are you sure you have not being playing only on cold maps with the MRM Raven? During a prolonged brawl, it will struggle to keep the heat down, if you want to keep firing those XPLs and MRMs.

Frostiken does not play he just trolls with past information.

Prove it.


God forbid we just have some discussion about something. Sorry I don't have to get my opinions voted on by a council of people who are just as useless trolls as they accuse me of being.

[CGB [CoffiNail]]

Are you sure you have not being playing only on cold maps with the MRM Raven? During a prolonged brawl, it will struggle to keep the heat down, if you want to keep firing those XPLs and MRMs.

Frostiken does not play he just trolls with past information.

Prove it.

You prove it.

[Frostiken]

Are you sure you have not being playing only on cold maps with the MRM Raven? During a prolonged brawl, it will struggle to keep the heat down, if you want to keep firing those XPLs and MRMs.

Frostiken does not play he just trolls with past information.

Prove it.

You prove it.

Because nobody who plays this game could possibly think the heavy laser nerfs were unnecessary, or pulse lasers have always been less desirable.

I love how I literally can't make a single thread about anything without immediate ad-hominem attacks, like my opinion offends you completely.

Grow up, CoffinNail.

[=CJW=YalK]

The only thing I've wanted changed about pulse lasers is too act the way XPLs do....where you can fire them at will, without the pre determined fire time.....maybe add in a "jam" or overheat mechanic like UAC's have if you keep them at the same damage level...

I just hate the 'click' then it does it's thing....feels too much like a stuttering version of a anemic HBL....

XPLs feel like you have a accuracy boost, since you can fire/not at will....pulse should be the same IMO   

[Frostiken]

The only thing I've wanted changed about pulse lasers is too act the way XPLs do....where you can fire them at will, without the pre determined fire time.....maybe add in a "jam" or overheat mechanic like UAC's have if you keep them at the same damage level...

I just hate the 'click' then it does it's thing....feels too much like a stuttering version of a anemic HBL....

XPLs feel like you have a accuracy boost, since you can fire/not at will....pulse should be the same IMO

Well, I like the XPLs since they act so uniquely. What would the advantage of XPLs be if PLs worked the same way? They do more damage? What about Clan PLs then?

I mean, strictly speaking the CBT X-pulse was *only* a range upgrade. Clan pulse lasers pretty much doubled the range of IS pulse lasers, and the X-Pulse was basically just an IS ER Pulse laser, complete with tons of extra heat. Space, weight, damage, was all the same.

[CGB [CoffiNail]]

I do not want to grow up, I want to stay a Toys'R'Us kid... besides you asked me to provide you with baseless ad hominem attacks, I am just complying with your request

Thoughts? Moans? Flames? Baseless ad hominem attacks?

You list us some callsigns you go by, and prove to us you do not just go romping around a personal dedicated server going ohh this is OP.

Half the regular players only know you as a troll spouting his mouth off on the forums.  You afraid people will gang up on you or something? You ain't no defender or kingleer, you have no need to smurf.  What do you go by. if you play so much and as such know so much the regulars will recognize the names. Otherwise two hours of playing does not really give you a proper stance to fight from.

[=KoS= Saber15]

Frostiken has a point.
Regular pulse (especially inner sphere pulse) lasers and heavy lasers are kinda poo. I'd dry hump one of the dev's legs if regular pulse lasers were actually good, but as it is there is pretty much zero reason to take them over X-pulse lasers (regular pulse: less range, less DPS, more heat, less effective versus air and BA)

[Spooky]

Frostiken has a point.
Regular pulse (especially inner sphere pulse) lasers and heavy lasers are kinda poo. I'd dry hump one of the dev's legs if regular pulse lasers were actually good, but as it is there is pretty much zero reason to take them over X-pulse lasers (regular pulse: less range, less DPS, more heat, less effective versus air and BA)

Indeed. But the regular pulse lasers do have one advantage over the XPLs: burst damage. But if you want that, you are better of with beam lasers anyway.


There are not many variants with pulse lasers, that are getting used frequently or even at all. Thor A and Whammy Prime are popular exceptions, but at least the former is not used for its PL.

[Frostiken]

I do not want to grow up, I want to stay a Toys'R'Us kid... besides you asked me to provide you with baseless ad hominem attacks, I am just complying with your request

Thoughts? Moans? Flames? Baseless ad hominem attacks?

You list us some callsigns you go by, and prove to us you do not just go romping around a personal dedicated server going ohh this is OP.

Half the regular players only know you as a troll spouting his mouth off on the forums.  You afraid people will gang up on you or something? You ain't no defender or kingleer, you have no need to smurf.  What do you go by. if you play so much and as such know so much the regulars will recognize the names. Otherwise two hours of playing does not really give you a proper stance to fight from.

Nah, see I do smurf, specifically from experiences from people like you whose greatest achievement in life is making a half-assed clan for a relatively unheard of mod of moderate popularity, who insisted on giving me constant grief in-game for what effectively amounted to a difference of opinion. Though it is amusing that in any other game, or any other mod, nobody would ever actually question how much you play or how good you are - seemingly only in MWLL is the small-dicked chest-beating pre-teen community of nerds so obsessed with their own machismo do they bother to pretend that being able to defeat someone in a duel somehow proves their points.

So tl;dr, no, I'm not going to tell you what a smurf as, even though I may as well just make up some names from people I know that don't post on the forums, because in the end, it doesn't change a fapping thing.

I know some people who are involved with this mod at a very high level, play often, but are absolutely terrible. I know some people who play once and week and are pretty decent. And all of it is irrelevant. The special, childish kind of mind it would take to think dick-waving forum fights that amount to saying MausGMR is the only person qualified to discuss balance of the game is not the kind of mind that needs to concern itself with discussions of how to improve the game by, for example, inspiring a discussion about how lasers behave with the interest of making the mod better overall, by making standard pulse and heavy lasers better, with the twist of attesting that perhaps the real problem is that the beam and x-pulses are too good.

But, as I said, you wouldn't understand.

[General_Armchair]

I love how I literally can't make a single thread about anything without immediate ad-hominem attacks, like my opinion offends you completely.

You've gotta admit though, regardless of the validity of your arguments, you have a tendency to present them in a fashion that encourages people to jump on you.


My stance of different lasers:

beam lasers:  I think these should be the base-line middle of the road of lasers......they are used VERY frequently on the unit list.
ER-beam lasers: OH GOD IT BURNS.  I like to brawl with my lasers, please let me downgrade.  I'll grab some gauss/erppc's for sniping.
pulse lasers:  I like them on the Raven C and Warhammer prime....and the laser Huit B.  Huit B's definitely a chain fire asset.   Definitely never reach full potential since you can only ever fire as fast as your heatsinks can shed the heat.  (....well, full potential for 6 seconds until you run out of coolant)
X-pulse:  I don't think X-pulse lasers get enough love on the unit list.  I liked the old Raven with the LXPL and the narc, I still like the XPL bushy.....and I liked that SXLPL on the departed raven D.  I'd like to see a raven with 2 MXPL and a LXPL.
heavy lasers:  Same as X-pulse, I don't think they get enough love on the unit list.  Close range assault pumas certainly aren't as popular as they used to be, but there are just enough of them around for one to show up AT THE WORST POSSIBLE MOMENT.  I like the cougar/shadowcat with HML....but there are arguably BETTER things to purchase.  I also like the 3x HLL morrigu.

[Frostiken]

The C.R.A.P. only really ever seemed to be for trolling by shooting off legs :/

Regarding the beam lasers, the reason I propose that they might be *too* good is because they have the fastest, best and most heat-efficient burst damage of any laser. Where I see this as a conflict is with the pulse lasers which are, at least according to lore, supposed to be more accurate. As Spooky mentioned, there's really no reason to actually take the standard pulse lasers - if you want sustained fire, take an XPL, if you want quick burst damage, take a BL.

This leaves pulse lasers with their 'in-between' nature sort of 'out there', with heavy lasers being sort of a gimmick only really useful on a couple assets (which are sort of special cases given the kind of platforms the Siege Engine and Morrigu are).


Ignoring the issue of XPLs (pretend they don't exist), would nerfing beam lasers with a longer beam (to make them less accurate) but, of course, the same damage, make them less immediately the obvious 'default' laser choice?

Personally I'd really like to see the choice between the four laser options (well, three - since HLs and XPLs are unique per side) being a pure toss-up.