Author Topic: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)  (Read 569 times)

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Offline aries144

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1. Maximum player asset render distance is not far enough to allow an ASF pilot enough time to line up a shot.

2. VTOLs can't be held stable enough to fire at a target from medium to long distance and can't be controlled well enough around terrain features used for terrain masking (hills, mountains) to enable them to safely employ bob-up, fire, bob-down maneuvers, nor could they do enough damage per bob-up to make that tactic useful with autocannons.

3. It is difficult for an ASF pilot to hold the reticle on a target the size of an entire mech (targeting a specific spot on a mech is impossible) for longer than .5 seconds because of target movement and craft control difficulty. Lasers must be fired and held on target for roughly one second to do appreciable damage. Smaller rapid-fire autocannons like the uac5 and uac2 and uac5/uac2 require roughly 10 - 30 seconds of firing, depending on target type, to do appreciable damage. This makes them almost completely worthless for aircraft, even air-to-air.

4. Long Range Missiles suffer from both limited visibility and reticle-on-target-time issues since the reticle must first be held on-target for a short time, often longer then the .5 seconds that is typically possible, requiring multiple attempts, and then the weapon must be given so much time to lock that the pilot must either slow down to near-stall speed (making himself extremely vulnerable) or be too close to for the missiles to hit when launched.

All this is especially true for joystick users, since the control is so sensitive/twitchy that's it's impossible to make gentle, slight corrections needed to keep a reticle on a small, moving target.

These issues are why so many ASF and VTOL pilots resort to hovering at high altitude above ground targets or "ballooning." The current situation often simply makes it the smartest tactic.

Suggestions:

Increase the range at which player-controlled objects can be seen.

Reduce the amount of time you have to hold a weapon on target while firing to inflict appreciable damage by increasing projectile damage and reducing rate of fire (maintaining the same damage-per-minute value) or by increasing the rate of fire of aircraft autocannons, reducing the firing time of aircraft lasers while maintaining the same damage value per shot (increase the recharge rate and/or heat), and increase the radius around the target that the reticle can rest in for missile lock-on to initiate.

These would go a long way to helping ASF and AAA assets and wouldn't hurt the battle armor or mech combat dynamics either.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 01:14:41 AM by aries144 »

Offline =KoS= Saber15

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 02:00:41 AM »
What controls are you using for aeros and VTOLs? I rarely have trouble blasting legs off with lasers or skimming the ground in VTOLs, when I have yaw set to the mouse.

About the render distance, it's low so peoples computer's aren't butt-raped, and to prevent people for seeing across the map - if I had higher render distances in scrims, I could instant know where the enemy is and what they are using when I take a sparrowhawk.

Aero autocannons are best served as interceptor and anti-BA weapons; they aren't suited for taking on armored ground targets.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 02:11:29 AM by =KoS= Saber15 »

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Offline =KoS= Tripod

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 02:22:48 AM »
I'm pretty sure he's talking about draw distance under 600 meters, which generally happens on mirage (hilly sand map) and is a bit of a glitch
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Offline ELH_Vivicector

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 09:26:10 AM »
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1. Maximum player asset render distance is not far enough to allow an ASF pilot enough time to line up a shot.

It is usually a more, then 1500 m. Fine for me. However, visual is bugged on TSA_Mirage (WHEN THE HELL IT WOULD BE FIXED????).
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VTOLs can't be held stable enough to fire at a target from medium to long distance and can't be controlled well enough around terrain features used for terrain masking (hills, mountains) to enable them to safely employ bob-up, fire, bob-down maneuvers, nor could they do enough damage per bob-up to make that tactic useful with autocannons.
Your fail. I can safely land a Lt. Gauss on a moving mech from 900 m, 50/50 from 900 to 1200 meters. Hovering across the terrain just can't be easier when you learn the controls.
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3. It is difficult for an ASF pilot to hold the reticle on a target the size of an entire mech (targeting a specific spot on a mech is impossible) for longer than .5 seconds because of target movement and craft control difficulty.

Your fail too. I cut off Gausses of SCat on both public matches and drops from 900 meters away wih Sulla A. Or may be you have the controls set wrong.

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Lasers must be fired and held on target for roughly one second to do appreciable damage.
LBLs impulse is 0.5 seconds. If you are talking about Sulla A - then fap the heatsinks, use alpha strikes together with some coolant.
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Smaller rapid-fire autocannons like the uac5 and uac2 and uac5/uac2 require roughly 10 - 30 seconds of firing, depending on target type, to do appreciable damage. This makes them almost completely worthless for aircraft, even air-to-air.

UAC2s (UAC5 is not mounted on ASF) are not made for killing mechs and tanks. In dogfights, they quite suck too, that is right. However, LBX-5 do the job.

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Long Range Missiles suffer from both limited visibility and reticle-on-target-time issues since the reticle must first be held on-target for a short time, often longer then the .5 seconds that is typically possible, requiring multiple attempts, and then the weapon must be given so much time to lock that the pilot must either slow down to near-stall speed (making himself extremely vulnerable) or be too close to for the missiles to hit when launched.

Lock time is quite ok (may be you have encountered passive+GECM unit, that would take forever to lock). At least, i never had to go in stall to do that.

Quote
All this is especially true for joystick users, since the control is so sensitive/twitchy that's it's impossible to make gentle, slight corrections needed to keep a reticle on a small, moving target.

Donno about joystick. I use mouse and keyboard to fly, works great (good mouse needed).


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These issues are why so many ASF and VTOL pilots resort to hovering at high altitude above ground targets or "ballooning."

The reason of ballooning is a lack of skill to do anything else. We can't do anything with it.

Quote
The current situation often simply makes it the smartest tactic.
It is in fact the dumbest and most useless tactics available. I remember A Hawkmoth A trying to kill my Uller Prime. He was on me from the start of the match, used up all of his ammo and got away. My armour levels stayed in yellow zone.

I assume, that you need to reconfig your controls and get used to the way it works.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 09:44:17 AM by ELH_Vivicector »

Offline -SM-SUCKER

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 12:25:28 PM »
1. Maximum player asset render distance is not far enough to allow an ASF pilot enough time to line up a shot.

2. VTOLs can't be held stable enough to fire at a target from medium to long distance and can't be controlled well enough around terrain features used for terrain masking (hills, mountains) to enable them to safely employ bob-up, fire, bob-down maneuvers, nor could they do enough damage per bob-up to make that tactic useful with autocannons.
...
Sorry, that is all I read.
You will need to play the game for a bit longer and review your controls.
Aiming with the mouse is possible, even at longer distances.
VTOLS can slide left and right if you roll to the left/right and then move "up". Just a matter of practice.

Offline =KoS= Eldragon

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 02:17:58 PM »
I think you need more practice aries144 and/or some configuration changes.

What are you using to aim? Joystick/Gamepad lacks the precision required for aircraft.

What is your frame rate while flying? Being airborne may be pushing your frame rate into the 10-20 range: Making precision shots impossible. Have you tried lowering your graphics settings or running CCC?

Offline aries144

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 07:26:40 PM »
Thanks for the input guys.

It looks like most of my issues stem from trying to use a joystick for air units. The control is way too twitchy- the input is way too 'energetic' towards the center of the joystick movement and actually becomes less so away from the center. It actually needs to be the opposite.

I noticed a huge difference in my ability to be competitive when I stopped trying to drive tanks and mechs with the joystick. Crysis just doesn't have good joystick support I guess.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 07:32:07 PM by aries144 »

Offline =KoS= Eldragon

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 07:33:54 PM »
Open Config action mapper and set reverse yaw option.

Sometimes  the action mapper gets de-synced with the actual action maps. e.g.  If says its "No" and its still acting reversed, set it to "Yes" Save the action map,  then set it back to No and save it again. Should fix the problem, happens to me every couple weeks.

Offline Waffnuffly

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 07:59:29 PM »
Practice with VTOLs and air more as people have said, but mainly, reconfigure your keys! The defaults are not very good for flying.

I have my aircraft set up so that banking is controlled by keys, not a mouse axis (seriously wtf defaults there). Pitch and yaw are controlled by the mouse. For VTOLs, it's more or less the same but one of the axes is inverted, and the vector thrust key is easily within reach.

If you're flying VTOLs (which are the most fun IMO), get used to using the thruster control effectively. It can mean the difference between life and death quite often. Also, practice diving around behind hills and stuff. See how close you can stay to the ground without crashing. Eventually you'll get the hang of it and be able to cruise around all over the place like a bawss.

Offline =KoS= Eldragon

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 08:51:07 PM »
On the topic of key bindings, Bind 10% through 50% throttle to the keys 1 through 5.

VTOLs hold a perfect hover a 25%, but the key bindings jump from 20% to 30%. So to get into a good hover quickly go to 30% throttle and drop to 20% if you get too high.

Offline sleepysheep

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 09:49:22 PM »
I gave up using the joystick for MWLL after I tried to get it to work and relised I have more accuracy using buttons on the keyboard than a joystick :( I know you can tweak it, but damn, mouse all the way.

And the draw distance in MWLL sucks ass. Not that it's ever going to change.
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Offline aries144

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 11:02:53 PM »
Thanks again for the help guys.

Eldragon,  I figured out the reverse right after I made the post and had hoped no one would see that line before I edited it out. :D Don't know why it's different from the way you reverse a joystick axis.

I'd still like to see the viewdistance increased and personally would like to see weapons in the game a little more lethal- but I think I understand why the armor/weapon damage balance is the way it is right now.

Offline [CW]Aresye

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 11:27:25 PM »
You seem new, so I'll cut you some slack, but regarding maneuverability, aiming difficulty, etc, it's all a matter of practice.

Actionmaps are half the battle.  The other half is how much practice you put in.  When I was deployed I didn't have multiplayer, so I just flew VTOL around different maps and tried landing in some strange places.

Hit me up on TS some time and I'll show you a thing or two the VTOL can do ;)

Offline DBS76_ExMachina

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 12:21:49 PM »
Reminds me of my suggestion... switch LRM/ATM locks to the manual lock instead of using a crosshair zone. It would make so much more sense, especially for aerospace/vtol.

Offline [CW]Aresye

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Re: A Concise Critical List for Air Asset Gameplay (With Suggestions)
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2011, 06:09:39 AM »
Also, forgot to mention about the VTOL, since nobody else mentioned it (unless I missed it):

The default "K" keybinding switches your VTOL or tank from instant throttle to ramping throttle.  I'm sure some can use the %-throttle effectively, but I use ramping throttle and the default W and S keys to constantly tweak it as I need it.  I also use the "X" cut throttle on VTOLs a lot.

For example, if you want to perform a quick stop maneuver into a hover:

1. Fly at max speed with boost.
2. While holding boost, hit X to cut throttle.
3. Pitch nose up 30-40 degrees while slowly adding throttle to avoid descending while simultaneously not adding too much that you balloon.
4. Once your forward speed is almost stopped, pitch the nose back forward and level while taking out a little throttle.

If done correctly, you can fly at max. speed, stop almost instantaneously while not losing or gaining any altitude, and then level out in a perfect hover.

Regarding hover work, it's really about practice, because it takes a lot of really small, minor adjustments to keep a good hover.  Personally I don't think you can ever truly achieve a perfect hover with %-throttle, as I am constantly tapping the W and S keys to maintain the same altitude.

For precision aiming, such as Lt. Gauss shooting and or the RAC5 variant, you really need a joystick with the ability to twist.  My actionmaps are set up so my regular yaw is on the A and D keys, but my joystick twist has a low sensitivity for pinpoint precision.