Shiva prices

[=KoS= Eldragon]

Can you explain to me why a flying MK2 A costs 20k less, has 4 tons extra for ammo, moves much faster, with the ONLY downside being an arbitrary damage increase against it designed to give AA tanks a helping hand? Oh and being a 3d mover, it has no issues with targets directly above or below, since it can just move to bring them into the crosshairs.

I think this is the greater issue. But you cannot ban the variant--it will just be recreated in mechlab. Instead it should just cost more. No reason a flying beatstick should be 20k less than the walking Beatstick. Either that or make the Shiva slower to represent it's Assault-like tendencies.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

Well technically you can. Since we don't know how a mechlab will work in MWLL, I'm going to use the MW4 style coloured pod system as a reference, since that has far more anti-boat potential than the 2/3 crit slots system. Only let a Shiva have ONE yellow slot large enough to fit a 20, problem solved. Another thing, if chassis are cheap and weapons are expensive, what makes the MK2 A so much more expensive than the Shiva, given they have the same weapon payload?

[=KoS= Eldragon]

I believe the difference is armor. Which is mostly moot because the Shiva has fewer armor sections.

Although base chassis price is probably cheaper for the Shiva as well.

MWLL uses a "pod size" system. Not all that different conceptually than MW4. So to take away the ability to mount the LBX20 would also take away the ability to mount any other "Large" pods like the UAC20 or Gauss

While many are terrified of a mechlab's balance issues, it probably wouldn't be all that different from now. Balance issues would be put to a real test, not quibbling about various stock variants. Given a mechlab, I could probably create something far more terrifying than the Shiva E. So worrying about the specifics hardpoints of the Shiva E may be premature.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

Since there don't seem to be any colours to the pods, (or in MW4 terminology, they're all omni) you might get away with 4 ArrowIV/4 TBolt Shiva variants... unless you could retardify it utterly and give it 2 long toms.... at which point lol uninstall

[Wraythe]

Just making it cost more is the weakest means of balance you could use. Complete cop out that screams, I'm not good enough.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

With the ease of earning cash in the current game, price will be no barrier to that asset entering the field. It needs a nerf that actually has some substance to it. Pretty much every game I've played since 052 came out, I could buy 2 of those even if they cost 200k (as an extreme example of a price increase).

[=KoS= Eldragon]

Price is a balance factor just as much as heat, tonnage, or damage.

To exclude price when determining an assets worth ignores the core MWLL gameplay: Deal damage, gain cbills, buy better stuff.  Take the "price does not matter" concept to the extreme, you may as well not have prices and players can buy whatever they want for free.

Some players may be able to earn enough c-bills and always be able to buy anything, but not all players.

[Wraythe]

Price is a balance factor just as much as heat, tonnage, or damage.

To exclude price when determining an assets worth ignores the core MWLL gameplay: Deal damage, gain cbills, buy better stuff.  Take the "price does not matter" concept to the extreme, you may as well not have prices and players can buy whatever they want for free.

Some players may be able to earn enough c-bills and always be able to buy anything, but not all players.

I didn't say exclude pricing. Pricing is a factor, however in the current game climate it is the least effective knob to turn since price is meant to balance the frequency in which something can be used. The higher the price the more infrequent you should see it. Price doesn't make anything less or more effective when actually used, and since the rate at which an intermediate level player can attain any asset they choose, pricing becomes the least useful means to balance something.

[ELH_Vivicector]

Price won't help (one-shot asset just sucks), it just need rebalance.

I personally love the idea of having only 20-rated sum of LBXes on ASF.

Another way is to create air-LBX-es. They may got way lower modifiers against ASF. So, it would require at least 2 salvos to kill Sulla. Or devs can make bigger Air-LBX loaded with slugs, not pellets (typo different ammo). Make slugs travel time lower, damage higher then AC20s. They would still be effective against ground, but hard to use against air.

Oh, the idea looks good. Special Air-LBX 10 and Air-LBX 20 loaded with slugs. Damage per shot like 1200 for Air-LBX 20, 6 seconds reload time. Travel time like 2-3 times faster than AC20, range 450 meters. May be - lowered precision (like shotgun slugs) so ASF  have to get closer) They would be very effective against ground (same as now), but very hard to use against air.

[Taemien]

My idea would work even with a Mechlab, just put a trigger in there that doesn't allow more then 20 sum LBXs. Hell make it CTD to really get their attention XD kidding of course.

[ELH_Vivicector]

In mechlab, they can just deny ASF using usual weapon type, if special air version is available.

Slug-based LBXes would give ASF powerful and effective close-range weaponry (since UACs suck if based on ASF).

[(TLL) Heretic]

In mechlab, they can just deny ASF using usual weapon type, if special air version is available.

Slug-based LBXes would give ASF powerful and effective close-range weaponry (since UACs suck if based on ASF).

A solid slug LBX, would make LBX even more cheesy and OP, effectively you'd have an AC20 that fires 10 times a minute in stead of 30 times per minute (so 3 times the current AC20 slugs damage per shot for the LB-20X slug, no overheat and a fast projectile!).

This is purely a LBX class 10 and 20 Rate of Fire issue.  The LB-20X condenses 3x the AC20 slugs damage into each shot currently.  If it's RoF was 3X faster (ie. same as AC20) then it'd still have the benefits of no overheat and a faster projectile....and the LB-20X Sulla instagib would be gone (it's the cheapest feeling thing in the game right now).  Lower the modifer a little amount (have still to do the maths) and well and the Beatstick Shiva-instagib will also be gone.

It worked for the LB-5X, few will say that the old LB-5X(low rate of fire like the 10X and 20X) was more fun or better than the LB-5X we have now, so let's do the same for the 10X and 20X and fix the instagib for good.

[=KoS= Eldragon]

This is purely a LBX class 10 and 20 Rate of Fire issue.  The LB-20X condenses 3x the AC20 slugs damage into each shot currently.  If it's RoF was 3X faster (ie. same as AC20) then it'd still have the benefits of no overheat and a faster projectile....and the LB-20X Sulla instagib would be gone (it's the cheapest feeling thing in the game right now).  Lower the modifer a little amount (have still to do the maths) and well and the Beatstick Shiva-instagib will also be gone.

Improving the rate of fire and reducing the damage would certainly help. Shiva E won't be able to 1 shot a sulla from 400 meters out, but It still probably could do the job at close range. when nearly all the pellets hit.

....and the LB-20X Sulla instagib would be gone (it's the cheapest feeling thing in the game right now).

Does anyone else find it hilarious that ASF pilots think getting insta-gibbed is cheap? ...Quick glance to the FBomb....

I'm against one shot weapons. But as the mod is balanced right now the Shiva E serves an important role, its the only AA aero that can actually keep a determined bomber at bay. RAC5 Hawkmoth is good, but its lack of speed is a serious issue.

[ELH_Vivicector]

A solid slug LBX, would make LBX even more cheesy and OP, effectively you'd have an AC20 that fires 10 times a minute in stead of 30 times per minute (so 3 times the current AC20 slugs damage per shot for the LB-20X slug, no overheat and a fast projectile!).

In fact, damage of LBX-20 slug ammo should be something as 1200, since alpha-oriented weapon should always loose to DPS-oriented weapon in terms of DPS... Urs, Cap. Plus, projectile slower then LBX pellets (but faster, then AC20s slug). We can also add a bit of spread to LBX-slug since it is like shotgun slug with bad accuracy.

And we lower damage modifier against ASF for such LBX-slug to somewhere like *2.

By the way, IMHO, 4*RAC2+2*UAC5 Shiva would work fine as flying AA while not causing one-shot kills raping ground forces at the same time.