Author Topic: VA monitors for games?  (Read 11593 times)

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Offline KorJax

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VA monitors for games?
« on: November 06, 2011, 05:23:40 PM »
I'm looking to upgrade my old TN 1680x1050 monitor from 5 or so years ago with something more current, and more upgrade-worthly on all fronts. This has gotten me into looking into the VA/IPS realm of monitors. Unfortunatly these are known to have some bad drawbacks, in the sense that response times are a gamble and you can get bad backlight bleed with IPS. Not to mention IPS generally have pretty bad contrast ratios, even if their RGB colorspace is as close to real life as you can get.

I tried posting for advice on another forum but it devlolved into a small but elitistly angry vocal minority junking up my thread with how if I get anything other than a CRT I fail.

So what are your guys's thoughts? Do any of you have a VA/IPS monitor? I was looking at this one, and I'm close to getting it:

www.amazon.com/BenQ-EW2420-24-Inch-Monitor-Backlight/dp/B0045YP7L4

It's an M-VA LED backlit (edge, which sucks but my budget isn't huge enough to go into the $500 range) 24" monitor with a response time of 8MS. What are your thoughts, does anyone have an MVA monitor? How does it look? I was drawn to VA over IPS because it serves as a good middle ground between TN and IPS. As in, it still has true 8-bit colors and decent viewing angles like IPS (though IPS is much better I hear still in color reproduction, but hey - VA's still do it better than the best TN's), but it also has some of the deepest blacks and contrast you can get out of a current generation monitor, which is huge (IMO) for picture depth.

Anyone got any thoughts?

Offline Mitchpate

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2011, 05:40:59 PM »
You can't rely on the GTG rating.  On a fast-paced, action scene that monitor will have a 15-25ms response time.  This is unacceptable in the gaming world.

Why not stick with a standard LCD?  Samsung makes some really nice 24" LCDs that are perfect for gaming and they're priced lower than that BenQ.
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Offline sleepysheep

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2011, 05:52:13 PM »
I'm looking to upgrade my old TN 1680x1050 monitor from 5 or so years ago with something more current, and more upgrade-worthly on all fronts. This has gotten me into looking into the VA/IPS realm of monitors. Unfortunatly these are known to have some bad drawbacks, in the sense that response times are a gamble and you can get bad backlight bleed with IPS. Not to mention IPS generally have pretty bad contrast ratios, even if their RGB colorspace is as close to real life as you can get.

I tried posting for advice on another forum but it devlolved into a small but elitistly angry vocal minority junking up my thread with how if I get anything other than a CRT I fail.

So what are your guys's thoughts? Do any of you have a VA/IPS monitor? I was looking at this one, and I'm close to getting it:

www.amazon.com/BenQ-EW2420-24-Inch-Monitor-Backlight/dp/B0045YP7L4

It's an M-VA LED backlit (edge, which sucks but my budget isn't huge enough to go into the $500 range) 24" monitor with a response time of 8MS. What are your thoughts, does anyone have an MVA monitor? How does it look? I was drawn to VA over IPS because it serves as a good middle ground between TN and IPS. As in, it still has true 8-bit colors and decent viewing angles like IPS (though IPS is much better I hear still in color reproduction, but hey - VA's still do it better than the best TN's), but it also has some of the deepest blacks and contrast you can get out of a current generation monitor, which is huge (IMO) for picture depth.

Anyone got any thoughts?

It really depends on your taste. I had a thread I made earlier about which monitor I should get. Basically if your really sentative to colour and colour changing on the screen you pretty much have to get an IPS (But one with as fast refreash rate as possible and the real value not some crap the manufactore made up). If you aren't too bothered about colour, or true colour, 120hz monitor is defiently the way forward, expecially if you play alot of FPS. You will need a beefy PC to use a 120hz monitor to its fullest potiental (If your only getting 40fps at the moment in all games then it's pointless) but alot of IPS monitors, at least the good ones, can easily go over 1900x1200 res which once again will need a beefy PC.

For pure gaming, unless you are REALLY REALLY picky about colour, I would say pick a decent 120hz monitor. Cheap and best for gaming. Otherwise depending on your hardware find a cheap (relativly speaking) 23" IPS monitor, or buy a expencive 27-30" IPS monitor.

If you care about both these things, then your gonna need to buy two monitors ;) Or wait for OLED monitors to come on sale and their prices to plummit (2-3years?)
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Offline KorJax

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2011, 07:04:28 PM »
You can't rely on the GTG rating.  On a fast-paced, action scene that monitor will have a 15-25ms response time.  This is unacceptable in the gaming world.

Why not stick with a standard LCD?  Samsung makes some really nice 24" LCDs that are perfect for gaming and they're priced lower than that BenQ.

Hmm this is slighhtly concerning. I currently get about 5ms I figure, so I didn't think 8ms would be a big deal at all. but if its actually 15? That's a deal breaker. How come it isn't 8ms, and how do I tell if that's the actual reaponse time? Sadly therr isn't much coverage for that monitor as it is somewhat new.

I initally wanted ips but I hear contrast and black levels are actually worse on those than most TNs... not to mention backlight bleed is a big issue with them, and its hard to find an ips monitor under 500 or so with true 8bit colorspace...

Offline sleepysheep

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2011, 07:15:36 PM »
You can't rely on the GTG rating.  On a fast-paced, action scene that monitor will have a 15-25ms response time.  This is unacceptable in the gaming world.

Why not stick with a standard LCD?  Samsung makes some really nice 24" LCDs that are perfect for gaming and they're priced lower than that BenQ.

Hmm this is slighhtly concerning. I currently get about 5ms I figure, so I didn't think 8ms would be a big deal at all. but if its actually 15? That's a deal breaker. How come it isn't 8ms, and how do I tell if that's the actual reaponse time? Sadly therr isn't much coverage for that monitor as it is somewhat new.

I initally wanted ips but I hear contrast and black levels are actually worse on those than most TNs... not to mention backlight bleed is a big issue with them, and its hard to find an ips monitor under 500 or so with true 8bit colorspace...
Cheap IPS monitors suck. Expencive ones rock....You get what you pay for. And IPS colour is the best by miles, that includes black and white differences. Most IPS monitors are 10ms+ on real life testing. Some do go down as low as 8ms or so. But that's not great for gaming expecially if you are sentative enough to really notice it. I'm not sentative enough to notice the 8ms or so compaired to the 2ms my TN monitor has, but I was only using my mates PC for a short time.

If you do a bit of research on some good IPS monitors you will find backlight bleeding isn't such an issue at all, there are always gonna be cheaper/badly made monitors that really show the problem of course. Just make sure you do your research. If it's brand new, I would defiently wait!!! Wait for the reviews and then decide, monitors aren't cheap to be guessing on quality of the monitor and picture!


But this all comes down to, what do you actually want to do on this monitor? If your not doing any photo work, then IPS monitor might not be a great choice.
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Offline Mitchpate

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2011, 07:44:27 PM »
Hmm this is slighhtly concerning. I currently get about 5ms I figure, so I didn't think 8ms would be a big deal at all. but if its actually 15? That's a deal breaker. How come it isn't 8ms, and how do I tell if that's the actual reaponse time? Sadly therr isn't much coverage for that monitor as it is somewhat new.
That model is on Newegg and they list 8ms as the GTG rating.  The true response rating is 25ms.  For gaming it would average somewhere inbetween.
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Offline KorJax

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2011, 08:30:00 PM »
How do you tell what it's real response time is?

Sounds like I should stay away from that monitor then. Shame because it seemed like it has everything I want from a new monitor.

I guess I could always get it and then return if it doesn't work out.

Offline MagicSquirrel07

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2011, 11:00:21 PM »
I own a Dell U2711 27" 2560*1440 IPS monitor and have a 23" 1920*1080 TN panel right next to it. Both are calibrated so colours are accurate, and there is no comparison between the two.  Colours, blacks, everything is miles ahead on the IPS panel (my main screen).   I did a lot of research before buying this monitor and backlight bleeding was only a real issue on a single Dell IPS monitor according to many reviews I read (might have been the 23" IPS possibly?).

Also I don't really know where you are coming from with the "true 8 bit colour" comment (please enlighten me if I am missing something).  I dont find 8 bit colour all that impressive, all my images are stored as either RAW or TIFF files in the AdobeRGB colour space, and you can tell the difference especially in the greens on foliage if you drag the image so it is visible on both screens (10 bit AdobeRGB left vs 8 bit sRGB right).

Contrast ratio is largely a Con on the part of monitor manufacturers.  Basically they just make the blackest and whitest pixels darker / brighter respectively and stick a "1 million : 1" contrast ratio sticker on it.  Every pixel in between can be identical as they often just focus on the pure black pixel.  I've also always hated "dynamic contrast" options on monitors.

On the subject of response times, I have never had a problem with the either screen.  I was always the person that could not stand 60Hz CRT monitors and I could always tell if CRT screens were at 60 or 70Hz, but I have never had a problem with response times.  I'm sure some more hardcore gamers will disagree with this though.

Basicalyl if image quality is your main concern (as it is mine) colours, contrast, viewing angle, you will never go back once you go IPS.  If gaming performance is more important to you then you might be better served buyng a 120Hz monitor .
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Offline Mitchpate

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2011, 12:52:57 AM »
How do you tell what it's real response time is?
Look the model up on a website that doesn't hide bad stats.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014243
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Offline Eximo

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2011, 04:38:19 AM »
I found these articles quite enlightening, a little too much information if you ask me.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/s22a350h-st2220l-e2241s,2954.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/s242hl-bid-u2412m-t24a550,3016.html

I'm still running a 4-5 year old 17 inch 4:3 Samsung Syncmaster 731B 2ms GTG. Still haven't made up my mind on what to replace it with. Not sure I want to make the jump to LED backlight. I find most to be on the 'blue' side.

I kind of want to get the Samsung featured in that first article, but I don't care for the looks or the cheaply made stand. Wobbles with the slightest touch.

Offline MagicSquirrel07

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2011, 10:58:57 AM »
I found these articles quite enlightening, a little too much information if you ask me.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/s22a350h-st2220l-e2241s,2954.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/s242hl-bid-u2412m-t24a550,3016.html

I'm still running a 4-5 year old 17 inch 4:3 Samsung Syncmaster 731B 2ms GTG. Still haven't made up my mind on what to replace it with. Not sure I want to make the jump to LED backlight. I find most to be on the 'blue' side.

I kind of want to get the Samsung featured in that first article, but I don't care for the looks or the cheaply made stand. Wobbles with the slightest touch.
the "blue" look you describe is poor calibration and is common to most factory "calibrated" monitors i find. When i first calibrated my monitor i was convinced it was yellow due to this but once adjusted the Colours Look far more accurate.  My Dell came with a calibration certificate and wasn't far off but if i remove all calibration the tn panel i have next to it really does look blue.   
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Offline KorJax

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2011, 04:06:53 PM »
Wow, 25ms response time... I think I'll skip that monitor. Sounds so great with the supposid 3000:1 *legit* contrast ratio and better colors than your average TN, but if I'm just going to get terrible input lag and ghosting then it isn't usable for me :\

The Dell Ultrasharp 24" 2412m that the article someone above me posted sounds pretty good though. Not only is it 16:10, (bonus!) but it's an eIPS that supposidly is pretty good on response times, and pretty decent contrast/blacks for an IPS panel (it does better than the TN's they test it against at least). Sure it won't have as good color as h-IPS's, but hell - $300 vs $600 here.

Offline ratbuddy

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2011, 04:47:00 PM »
Ehh, screw IPS. If you're gonna spend that kind of money on a monitor, 120hz is the way to go. Slightly better color is fine, but double the refresh rate is plain old awesome. Even makes a difference when you aren't gaming, everything just feels more fluid.

Offline KorJax

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2011, 07:11:34 PM »
I care much more about color and picture quality than refresh rates, especially since I don't have the kind of hardware that'll ever use 120hz to it's fullest potential, and I've never been someone who was very suceptible to lack-of-smoothness (25-30fps honestly looks completely smooth to me if its forced to run at that rate).

Offline ratbuddy

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Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2011, 07:28:01 PM »
Even if you aren't pushing a full 120 frames to the monitor, the greatly reduced RTC errors of a 120hz panel make motion look much more natural :)