Author Topic: VA monitors for games?  (Read 11046 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sleepysheep

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1936
  • l33tp0intz: +35/-0
  • I'm me deal with it
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2011, 08:42:47 PM »
I care much more about color and picture quality than refresh rates, especially since I don't have the kind of hardware that'll ever use 120hz to it's fullest potential, and I've never been someone who was very suceptible to lack-of-smoothness (25-30fps honestly looks completely smooth to me if its forced to run at that rate).

Have you even played a game at over 60fps compaired to 25-30...if you can't tell the difference well that's lucky for you.
Sandy 2500k @ 4.6ghz
GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 V1.0 - Worst Motherboard ever.
2x GTX 580 3gb
8gb DDR3 dual channl 1600mhz
HX 1000W Corsair
Win 7 x64 Home Edition
5970x1200 Or 1920x1200 Triple Screen 26" Monitors
Dx10 Max settings 16xAF 8xAA

Offline MagicSquirrel07

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 163
  • l33tp0intz: +8/-0
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2011, 11:28:49 PM »
Wow, 25ms response time... I think I'll skip that monitor. Sounds so great with the supposid 3000:1 *legit* contrast ratio and better colors than your average TN, but if I'm just going to get terrible input lag and ghosting then it isn't usable for me :\

The Dell Ultrasharp 24" 2412m that the article someone above me posted sounds pretty good though. Not only is it 16:10, (bonus!) but it's an eIPS that supposidly is pretty good on response times, and pretty decent contrast/blacks for an IPS panel (it does better than the TN's they test it against at least). Sure it won't have as good color as h-IPS's, but hell - $300 vs $600 here.
Why do you always link ips with poor contrast? I know what you are getting at with blacks; they effectively have no off state; but this is generally only seen as a very slight hue at wide viewing angles isn't it?

Ips have very very good contrast, excellent colour reproduction and they have a wider gamut (depends on monitor) which means they can display more Colours. Ok they have worse response times but owning one myself i can say I've never had a problem with a worst case of around 20ms.

In the end you need to decide Whats more important to you. No other panel will give you the same rich Colours you get from a good ips and to me this is most important as i find that much more immersive than having the most "fluid" motion available.

I can see the difference in film credits on Blu Ray. They don't quite scroll smoothly on my 60Hz tv (this is more to do with the fact 24 does not divide equally into 60 but bear with me). I will probably buy a 120Hz tv at some point in the future but if someone offered me a 60Hz tv with the same contrast and colour as my monitor I would quite happily bite their hand off instead of getting the 120Hz.

I will point out I'm not a hardcore gamer and don't play fps much but i have honestly never seen a problem with ghosting or refresh rate on my monitor.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 12:09:45 AM by MagicSquirrel07 »
HAF X Nvidia Edition + Roccat Kone+ Mouse with matching green stripes
Custom Watercooled Intel 2600k @ 4.9GHz + Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD7-B3 Motherboard + 16Gb Ballistix Tracer 1600MHz DDR3 RAM
ATI 5970 with quad waterblock mod/abuse
Corsair HX1050 PSU
Win 7 Professional x64, 256Gb Crucial M4 SSD, 500Gb + 1Tb HDD, 2Tb NAS
Dell U2711 27" 2560*1440 IPS Monitor & 23" 1920*1080 AOC TN monitor
Asus Xonar Essence ST + H6 Expansion board, Yamaha RX-V567 7.1 AV Reciever, Front: 2 * Mission Mx-2, Centre: Cambridge Audio s50, Rear: 2 * Wharfedale Diamond 9.1, Subwoofer: BK XLS200 equalised with Behringer Feedback Destroyer FBQ2496

Offline KorJax

  • Level Design (Reader of Stickies)
  • MWLL Developer
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2571
  • l33tp0intz: +45/-2
  • Memento Mori
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2011, 01:24:29 AM »
I care much more about color and picture quality than refresh rates, especially since I don't have the kind of hardware that'll ever use 120hz to it's fullest potential, and I've never been someone who was very suceptible to lack-of-smoothness (25-30fps honestly looks completely smooth to me if its forced to run at that rate).

Have you even played a game at over 60fps compaired to 25-30...if you can't tell the difference well that's lucky for you.


I have, and I can tell its a little smoother, but it's one of those things that I can only really notice well when I am playing something at 30FPS then immediatly go to 60FPS. If I'm playing something pretty consistently at 30FPS it feels smooth enough to not have it be noticable while playing, and that's what counts for me. In other words, its very playable and smooth enough to not cause me to blink an eye :)

I used to play games at 15-20 FPS and thought it was smooth when I could achieve that ;)


Offline KorJax

  • Level Design (Reader of Stickies)
  • MWLL Developer
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2571
  • l33tp0intz: +45/-2
  • Memento Mori
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2011, 01:27:43 AM »
Wow, 25ms response time... I think I'll skip that monitor. Sounds so great with the supposid 3000:1 *legit* contrast ratio and better colors than your average TN, but if I'm just going to get terrible input lag and ghosting then it isn't usable for me :\

The Dell Ultrasharp 24" 2412m that the article someone above me posted sounds pretty good though. Not only is it 16:10, (bonus!) but it's an eIPS that supposidly is pretty good on response times, and pretty decent contrast/blacks for an IPS panel (it does better than the TN's they test it against at least). Sure it won't have as good color as h-IPS's, but hell - $300 vs $600 here.
Why do you always link ips with poor contrast? I know what you are getting at with blacks; they effectively have no off state; but this is generally only seen as a very slight hue at wide viewing angles isn't it?

Ips have very very good contrast, excellent colour reproduction and they have a wider gamut (depends on monitor) which means they can display more Colours. Ok they have worse response times but owning one myself i can say I've never had a problem with a worst case of around 20ms.

In the end you need to decide Whats more important to you. No other panel will give you the same rich Colours you get from a good ips and to me this is most important as i find that much more immersive than having the most "fluid" motion available.

I can see the difference in film credits on Blu Ray. They don't quite scroll smoothly on my 60Hz tv (this is more to do with the fact 24 does not divide equally into 60 but bear with me). I will probably buy a 120Hz tv at some point in the future but if someone offered me a 60Hz tv with the same contrast and colour as my monitor I would quite happily bite their hand off instead of getting the 120Hz.

I will point out I'm not a hardcore gamer and don't play fps much but i have honestly never seen a problem with ghosting or refresh rate on my monitor.

I heard IPS have generally worse blacks than most other monitor types, but some of the ones I've looked at seem to actually be pretty good. I guess it's one of those things thats a monitor by monitor basis. I'll probably look into that Ultrasharp I posted on the last page. Seems like a great deal for $300. A large 24", IPS, wide view angles, not-crazy huge response times, and 16:10 (I don't mind 16:9, but 16:10 definatly is preferrable)

Assuming my now-KO'd car won't cost me a fortune to fix. Otherwise I'll have to skip out :(

Offline Mitchpate

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1271
  • l33tp0intz: +39/-0
    • NetBattletech
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2011, 01:30:47 AM »
No one has said this yet so I will, you might want to pick the monitor online and then buy it locally.  Most online retailers have "dead pixel" terms that require many to be dead before they accept an RMA.  A local store will typically take the return on even 1 dead pixel, if for no other reason than to please the irrate customer.
Mitchpate
NBT Admin Team

Offline ratbuddy

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1349
  • l33tp0intz: +76/-1
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2011, 03:44:11 AM »
I can see the difference in film credits on Blu Ray. They don't quite scroll smoothly on my 60Hz tv (this is more to do with the fact 24 does not divide equally into 60 but bear with me). I will probably buy a 120Hz tv at some point in the future but if someone offered me a 60Hz tv with the same contrast and colour as my monitor I would quite happily bite their hand off instead of getting the 120Hz.

Bear in mind that "120hz" TVs aren't the same thing as true 120hz computer monitors. The TVs just interpolate, or worse yet show every frame from a 60hz signal twice. A real 120hz computer monitor actually shows twice as many frames.

Offline Mitchpate

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1271
  • l33tp0intz: +39/-0
    • NetBattletech
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2011, 04:14:04 AM »
A real 120hz computer monitor actually shows twice as many frames.
Unless the video card can't process the game that fast in which case you'll be seeing the same frame multiple times.
Mitchpate
NBT Admin Team

Offline ratbuddy

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1349
  • l33tp0intz: +76/-1
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2011, 04:39:35 AM »
A real 120hz computer monitor actually shows twice as many frames.
Unless the video card can't process the game that fast in which case you'll be seeing the same frame multiple times.

Even when that's the case, the reduction in RTC errors still makes the image appear much smoother.

Offline KorJax

  • Level Design (Reader of Stickies)
  • MWLL Developer
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2571
  • l33tp0intz: +45/-2
  • Memento Mori
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2011, 06:33:04 AM »
Went ahead and ordered myself a U2412m after figuring out my budget this winter, and research into the monitor :) Cost about $340, including the $30 expediated shipping (hey, it was only $10 more than normal shipping so why not!).

Seems like it'll be a solid upgrade all around. 24", IPS, still 16:10, the good stuff :D

I figure if it doesn't work out (cost wise, my impressions or usability) then I can just return it.

Offline MagicSquirrel07

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 163
  • l33tp0intz: +8/-0
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2011, 11:28:01 AM »
I can see the difference in film credits on Blu Ray. They don't quite scroll smoothly on my 60Hz tv (this is more to do with the fact 24 does not divide equally into 60 but bear with me). I will probably buy a 120Hz tv at some point in the future but if someone offered me a 60Hz tv with the same contrast and colour as my monitor I would quite happily bite their hand off instead of getting the 120Hz.

Bear in mind that "120hz" TVs aren't the same thing as true 120hz computer monitors. The TVs just interpolate, or worse yet show every frame from a 60hz signal twice. A real 120hz computer monitor actually shows twice as many frames.
I'm not going to get into the difference between 120Hz refresh rate, motion smoothing etc. I was merely trying to make an apparently poor analogy to say image quality matters more to me than motion quality.


Went ahead and ordered myself a U2412m after figuring out my budget this winter, and research into the monitor :) Cost about $340, including the $30 expediated shipping (hey, it was only $10 more than normal shipping so why not!).

Seems like it'll be a solid upgrade all around. 24", IPS, still 16:10, the good stuff :D

I figure if it doesn't work out (cost wise, my impressions or usability) then I can just return it.

Let us know what you think of it when it arrives.  Thats actually the monitor I was very close to buying before I went insane and decided to spend every penny I had on a huge monitor.  I'm with you on 24" monitors I prefer 16:10 but I actually quite like 16:9 @ 2560*1440, you get more height than 24" 16:10 still but it gives you a sort of mini surround effect from being so wide.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 12:56:04 AM by MagicSquirrel07 »
HAF X Nvidia Edition + Roccat Kone+ Mouse with matching green stripes
Custom Watercooled Intel 2600k @ 4.9GHz + Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD7-B3 Motherboard + 16Gb Ballistix Tracer 1600MHz DDR3 RAM
ATI 5970 with quad waterblock mod/abuse
Corsair HX1050 PSU
Win 7 Professional x64, 256Gb Crucial M4 SSD, 500Gb + 1Tb HDD, 2Tb NAS
Dell U2711 27" 2560*1440 IPS Monitor & 23" 1920*1080 AOC TN monitor
Asus Xonar Essence ST + H6 Expansion board, Yamaha RX-V567 7.1 AV Reciever, Front: 2 * Mission Mx-2, Centre: Cambridge Audio s50, Rear: 2 * Wharfedale Diamond 9.1, Subwoofer: BK XLS200 equalised with Behringer Feedback Destroyer FBQ2496

Offline Ghiest

  • Star Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 859
  • l33tp0intz: +17/-0
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2011, 08:05:03 PM »
You can't rely on the GTG rating.  On a fast-paced, action scene that monitor will have a 15-25ms response time.  This is unacceptable in the gaming world.

Why not stick with a standard LCD?  Samsung makes some really nice 24" LCDs that are perfect for gaming and they're priced lower than that BenQ.

There is reason that they are priced lower than others, it's because they don't last long.  in fact I have had 2 go on me rather recently that are just over 12 months old :/

Benq are far superior imo.

Offline Mitchpate

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1271
  • l33tp0intz: +39/-0
    • NetBattletech
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2011, 10:07:39 PM »
So fix them.  My 5 year old LCD died over the summer and for $10 I swapped out the bad parts and it's good as new.

When an LCD dies due to "age" they're almost always fixable for <$30.
Mitchpate
NBT Admin Team

Offline Spooky

  • Living Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 3649
  • l33tp0intz: +156/-37
  • my little pwny
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2011, 10:33:42 PM »
Fixable only by someone who actually knows how to fix it.

Offline KorJax

  • Level Design (Reader of Stickies)
  • MWLL Developer
  • Living Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 2571
  • l33tp0intz: +45/-2
  • Memento Mori
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2011, 07:09:46 PM »
Got my Dell 2412m eIPS LED monitor in today!

Wow this thing is nice! It feels so much bigger than my older 20" Acer Tn monitor. How the monitor sits on the desk and functions just reeks of quality too - perfectly stable swivel, really nice matte bezel on the edges, super simple to put together (the stand just clips on securely), adjustable height, etc. It looks great with my black desk, speakers and keyboard.

It's very bright and vibrant color wise and I don't get any backlight bleed. I've not noticed any ghosting at all either. I love how the colors in the picture are uniform all the way around the image, so things don't appear more or less washed out.

There is one "big" downside though compaired to my TN - this thing has good contrast, but terrible viewing angles on blacks/dark scenes. If you are sitting close to the monitor and are viewing a predominantly dark scene, the edges and corners of the monitor have this "reflective black" look, where it washes out all the details. This makes it so dark scenes have terrible contrast outside the center of your viewing angle up close, to the point where if I am 1'-2' away, the corners of the picture are almost 100% washed out. I can only "fix" it by sitting back a little to widen my FoV on the monitor.

This isn't a problem at all if the image is predominatly bright or colorful, which is where this monitor really shines. And its only an issue if you usually game or watch movies within close proximity to the monitor, as otherwise blacks look just fine "at the right angle".

Offline Mitchpate

  • Star Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1271
  • l33tp0intz: +39/-0
    • NetBattletech
Re: VA monitors for games?
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2011, 08:46:36 PM »
its only an issue if you usually game or watch movies within close proximity to the monitor
I don't know many who play PC FPS games "sitting back" away from the monitor.  I know for me that reduces my KDR substantially.
Mitchpate
NBT Admin Team