Make heavy lasers continuous-fire

[Terragent]

Well, the LRM topic is probably better off without further laser discussion, and all the laser topics I could find were also pretty sidetracked, so here's a new topic.

I think heavy lasers would work much better if they were a continuous-fire weapon. As it is, their 1.5 second discharge makes them tremendously cumbersome, and their slow refire rate means that a huge amount rides on each shot - and yet unlike other slow-firing weapons (LBX, PPC) you have to stay on target for a long time, exposing your weakest parts to return fire.

I like the fact that heavy lasers force the user to endanger themselves by using them, but the long break between shots and lack of control over fire duration makes them too unwieldy to use against most targets, especially given their short range. Rather than have them behave like LB-X autocannons with a long delay between shots, I'd say it would be better to have them work like rotary autocannons: you have to take a risk and expose yourself in order to get full use from them, but an aborted shot isn't a massive liability.

There should be a brief (~1 second?) delay after firing stops before you can fire again, in order to prevent them from basically being X-pulse lasers when stutter-fired (cheers, Ressk!) and possibly an equally brief charge-up before firing like with RACs.

Thoughts?

[Cik]

sounds good to me, though a slight damage boost is also acceptable.

[1N4001]

MW3-style "pulse" lasers. This might be fun. Go for it.

[-SM-SUCKER]

Interesting idea!

[ELH_Vivicector]

We already have X-pulses that are doing nearly the same thing. I am against the idea.

A simple damage buff is needed.

[~SJ~ Atlessa]

We already have X-pulses that are doing nearly the same thing. I am against the idea.

Well... yes, but the clans don't have any weapon system like this. Besides I (and I suppose some others) still can't use x-pulses to their full potential due to the FPS dependent fire-rate...

Besides, weren't x-pulse lasers INTENDED to imitate some of the clans lasers advantages fluff-wise?

[MerfMerf]

We already have X-pulses that are doing nearly the same thing. I am against the idea.

Nearly.. but not quite the same I would say.
This seems to make them more like a laser version of the RAC5, what with the spin-up (charge-up?). All it is lacking to make it a laser equivalent of the RAC5 is some overheat mechanic (overheat of the weapon itself as per RAC).

/Merf - Can imagine some rather kewl charge up sounds to go with the current awesome discharge sound.

[Terragent]

Sounds like these, perhaps?

Vivicetor: X-pulses are scalpels. This would be more like a fire hose.

[Spooky]

Sounds like these, perhaps?

Vivicetor: X-pulses are scalpels. This would be more like a fire hose.

X-pulses are scalpels? Heavy Lasers are scalpels. Hence the scalpel nickname for the HL Morrigu.

[MerfMerf]

Sounds like these, perhaps?

Eh.. not sure. Those are not nearly as angry as the current discharge sound. The charge up would need to be a bit more.. intense maybe? All in my own humble opinion that is. Not that it currently matters much seeing as there is no charge-up on any of the energy weapons currently (unless you count recycle time after having fired).

X-pulses are scalpels? Heavy Lasers are scalpels. Hence the scalpel nickname for the HL Morrigu.

A scalpel implies a precision instrument. Sort of not that fitting on a weapon that carries an accuracy penalty in my opinion...

/Merf - Heavy lasers really sounds like they melt peoples faces off.

[Spooky]

A scalpel implies a precision instrument. Sort of not that fitting on a weapon that carries an accuracy penalty in my opinion...

So a needle is a scalpel as well? (which is what I would metaphorically compare X-Pulse lasers to).

[MerfMerf]

So a needle is a scalpel as well? (which is what I would metaphorically compare X-Pulse lasers to).

No.. why would you think that?
There are plenty precision instruments...

I only argued against referring to heavy lasers as scalpels, and stating that I think the Morrigu with 3 scalpels have a nickname that does not fit it. What needles have to do with that I have no idea. How much precision a needle does or does not require does not matter to my argument that scalpels are precision instruments and as such should not be compared to a heavy laser. The similarities I suspect people draw between a scalpel and a heavy laser is that they are both used for cutting, and that your typical scalpel user cuts sort of slowly to ensure precision which could be seen as similar to MWLLs slow discharge heavy lasers. In MWLL however a slow discharge equals inaccuracy instead of accuracy making the comparison bad in my opinion. A scalpel is a direct controlled tool that the user can direct with great precision, a heavy laser in MWLL is something you click start on and after that lose your ability to stop cutting until the tool itself has finished. Further more the heavy laser in MWLL is a loud aggressive and rather brutal feeling weapon, while a scalpel is refined, subtle and not typically seen as brutal.

If anything the heavy lasers of MWLL brings my mind to chainsaws, blowtorches and plasma-cutters. Even these tools have a greater degree of user control (you can stop when you want) but they still feel more similar to  the heavy laser to me (mostly on account of being much less subtle and not at all as precise as a scalpel).

/Merf - Statement that A != B is not defeated by stating C != B.

[Spooky]

No.. why would you think that?
There are plenty precision instruments...

And "scalpels" and "needles" being a few of them, no?

The similarities I suspect people draw between a scalpel and a heavy laser is that they are both used for cutting, and that your typical scalpel user cuts sort of slowly to ensure precision which could be seen as similar to MWLLs slow discharge heavy lasers.

Exactly.

In MWLL however a slow discharge equals inaccuracy instead of accuracy making the comparison bad in my opinion. A scalpel is a direct controlled tool that the user can direct with great precision, a heavy laser in MWLL is something you click start on and after that lose your ability to stop cutting until the tool itself has finished. Further more the heavy laser in MWLL is a loud aggressive and rather brutal feeling weapon, while a scalpel is refined, subtle and not typically seen as brutal.

By that reasoning, no laser in MWLL should be nick-named a scalpel. A regular laser has a slow discharge as well, making it "inaccurate" and the Pulse lasers also deal their damage over a prolonged time.

(mostly on account of being much less subtle and not at all as precise as a scalpel).

We are dealing with heavy weaponry here. Nothing is "subtle" .

[(TLL) Heretic]

Sorry Terragent, but I hate this idea, not trolling on you, but it stinks for several reasons.

1)Lore-Wise the Clan Heavy Laser is a development from the Clan ER Laser, in MWLL CBT "Lasers" are called "Beam Lasers", CBTs "Heavy Laser" is MWLLs "Heavy Beam Laser"....it's implied in the Lore and in the Devs choice of name that all Lasers (non Pulse) are cutting beams and not photon-machineguns.

2)  The only differences between a CBT CHML and a CERML (MHBL and CERMBL in MWLL terms) is that the Heavy version trades heat and range for added damage, slightly increased tonnage and a +1 to-hit modifier (making it more difficult to hit with them...perfectly mirrored in MWLLs longer HBL discharge duration IMO).

3) The damage nerf (as others have pointed out) is the only thing that is hurting the Heavies right now, before the nerf they were popular..I used them all the time as did others.

4) The Heavy Laser and the X-Pulse laser are the two best designed lasers in MWLL from the angles of gameplay and training/skill/reward standpoints, (the vanilla pulse are just awful...which is why I'm lobbying for all pulsers to fire and behave like the XPLs, just with different ranges, heat profiles, damage delivered and colour).  IMHO we should be bringing the beam lasers up to the HBL level of gameplay, not turning Heavies into some sort of pulse laser.


Consider this, when you are discussing discharge duration on BLs and HBLs and XPLs/PLs, in CBT our Beam lasers get no accuracy benefit at all, Heavies have a 1point penalty, pulse have a (IIRC) 1 point advantage, therefore for accuracy in CBT the food chain is Pulsers>Beams>Heavy Beams.  Right now in MWLL (simplified) the food chain is Beams>Pulse>Heavy.  ERGO Beam Lasers need an increase in discharge duration (better for gameplay for many reasons), all pulsers should behave like the XPLS and HBL could use the damage nerf removed.....balance corrected without a major redesign of one of the best implemented weapons in MWLL.

EDIT: @Spooky, surely Gauss is a scalpel?  If I was to be cynical I'd say BLs as they have a 3 point to-hit advantage if we translate the MWLL BLs almost-instant discharge and hit-scan precision into CBT terms 

[-SM-SUCKER]

To be able to continue firing sounds like a bood idea, and i will try to explain why I think so:
Other than X-Pulse-Lasers the heavy lasers create lots of heat. This would still balance them naturally. But it should not be allowed to only fire it for a split second. The minimum duration should be like it is now. By giving the player the choice to continue firing you would give those lasers a better stance when comparing to other weapons.
Some variants which do not rely purely on heavy lasers could actually benefit greatly by this and then maybe even see some more fighting.