The Atlas, what is to be done?

[General_Armchair]

The following is why I never purchase Atli anymore.

Step 1: Purchase atlas.
Step 2:
Step 3: Get head-capped.

Having a ton of armor and being an all around damage sponge is great in CBT where damage is spread across the entire mech....

Having a ton of armor is significantly less useful when players can target a specific section with their weapons and your head is X-Box huge.

[Deathmancer]

I'm not sure allot of this thread is credible...
 

I am about to go in game and i intend to kill some new assaults with my Atlas C.

I don't feel like i can lose.

The problem with the Atlas is that it's exceedingly mediocre compared to every other mech choice. It's like the Bushwacker was in 0.1 (a horrible land yacht with pathetic handling), or the current Osiris.

It lacks the Fafnir's firepower or range
Lacks the Mauler's specialization (overwhelming firepower, anti-air, annoying sniper)
Lacks the Blood Asp's speed or firepower
Lacks the MKII's long range firepower or brutal close range punch
Lacks the Awesome's sniping potential, and it costs far more than the Awesome

You could say it's a generalist, but the variants and the limitations of the chassis prevents it from shining like the other generalists (Warhammer, Mad Cat).

Most of the Atlases have firepower that's comparable to a heavy mech, but it's twice the size, half the speed, and much more expensive. In point based games, when you take an Atlas, you're basically throwing points at your enemy.

Good points.

According to sarna the atlas is 100 tons.

Can it not carry 2 uac20 and 2 dual srm4??(sarna says it can hold DSRM 4) its a simple effective loadout that would surely remedy dislike for the atlas.

Surely its a matter of undesirable loadouts. Or a "master of undesirable loadouts" haha

1x hguass ,2x uac 10 2x ssrm 6

3x ac10, c3,bhp, 2x lrm 5, this might be over tonned.


come on i really think its just a matter of weak one of everything loadouts.


also keep in mind increasing its armor while keeping the price the same can have serious ramifications.

[KingLeerUK]

Also consider that the community is having "new toy syndrome" with both the Blood Asp and the Fafnir.  Further one of the most populated servers right now, Huntress, also chooses to enable "League Mode" to circumvent the c-bill transfer limitations for connected players.  As such it is relatively easy to achieve ANY top-end 'Mech simply by asking for large-sum c-bill transfers from 2-3 other players.
 
All of the above said we are going to increase the pricing for the Fafnir and Blood Asp to appropriately price their performance relative to other platforms.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

While I applaud raising the price on those 2 chassis (the first thing I did when loading 0.5.4 for the first time, was scroll down the menu, and have a hearty wtf at the prices), I have to take a step back and ask - are you really going to factor in Huntress letting people try out the new toys (hopefully generating a ton of data about them for you) into the price increase, instead of basing it purely on the fact they have an utterly incredible bang for buck value right now?

[TAX_MAN!]

If you can't see that the current banking form is broken and lets you get any mech really easily regardless of skill level then I have some swampland in Florida I'd like to sell you.

[ELH_Vivicector]

Atlas definitely needs some work.  Currently, I use only Atlas A and M&C (that one is a great late game C3 hub with NARCing abilities). Other variants are poor. 
Even with standard engine, Atlas has quite a small protection bonus over Fafnir (assuming 1.4 coef) while having crappy weapons. if Fafnir and Atlas pilots would spread damage to both torsos, then Fafnir will last even longer, then Atlas.

What I would like to see.
1) Damage modifier set to 1.2 and/or armour increase.
2) Price down significantly.
3) Weapon slots rework. More slots or bigger slots (I would prefer more slots - it would be more like Atlas).

[=KoS=Zeus]

The damage sponge motiff only works for the Atlas with a standard engine if it is being shot through side (or rear?) torsos. The trouble with this is, now that this information is known, the strategy with the Atlas is to simply core it or shoot its head off, both can be achieved simply by aiming near its head and hoping one or the other happens first.

The reason the Fafnir and the Blood Asp are more survivable, however, is because they kill or cripple pretty much anything they are facing in 1-2 salvos. I fired the 2 HGauss from a Fafnir into the side torso of a Blood Asp at about 400-500 meters on Lunacy and the entire side torso armor vanished. The second salvo destroyed the mech. Had he turned to fire on me instead of another enemy, I'm sure I would have been missing a side torso and half my CT armor from Gauss detonation. The Atlas will suffer this problem as well AND lose its Assault slot weapon, half its missiles, and 1 of its medium laser slots. At that point it lacks the firepower to be a threat to a Fafnir or Blood Asp.

I would suggest simply ditching the idea of Standard engines at this point, honestly. The benefit for a standard engine from CBT was huge over an XL, and both had their advantages. But in MWLL, where everything has been built on the idea of XL engines for everything and the mechanics for a side torso destruction are less harsh, the weight of a standard engine, with the test case mechanics currently on the Atlas, are simply not enough to make it worth it. Right now, Firepower is King while armor is only as good as the location's size.

The proposal would be to fit the Atlas with a 300 XL engine giving it 9.5 extra tons to work with. The current variants, as they stand, could then be upgraded thusly.

Prime
ERLBL - RA - 5 tons
ERLBL - LA - 5 tons
Gauss Rifle - RT - 15 tons
SRM6 - RT - 3 tons
LRM20 - LT - 10 tons
MPL - RT - 2 tons
MPL - LT - 2 tons
AECM - 1.5 tons
BAP - 1.5 tons
2 LAMS - 3 tons
3 Free Tons - 3 tons
7 HS - 7 tons
EOptics -
+0.5 tons of armor

A
RAC5 - RA - 10 tons
RAC5 - LA - 10 tons
RAC5 - RT - 10 tons
MRM10 - RT - 3 tons
MRM10 - LT - 3 tons
MXPL - RT - 2 tons
MXPL - LT - 2 tons
AECM - 1.5 tons
BAP - 1.5 tons
2 LAMS - 3 tons
6 Free Tons
3 HS - 3 tons
+0.5 tons of armor

B
ERLBL - RA - 5 tons
ERLBL - LA - 5 tons
Heavy Gauss - RT - 18 tons
LRM15 - RT - 7 tons
LRM15 - LT - 7 tons
ERMBL - RT - 2 tons
ERMBL - LT - 2 tons
AECM - 1.5 tons
BAP - 1.5 tons
EOptics -
2 Free Tons
4 HS - 4 tons
+0.5 tons of armor

C
UAC10 - RA - 12 tons
UAC10 - LA - 12 tons
UAC20 - RT - 14 tons
SRM6 - RT - 3 tons
SRM6 - LT - 3 tons
MBL - RT - 2 tons
MBL - LT - 2 tons
LAMS - 1.5 tons
6 Free Tons - 6 tons

D
ERPPC - RA - 7 tons
ERPPC - LA - 7 tons
ERPPC - RT - 7 tons
MRM20 - RT - 7 tons
MRM20 - LT - 7 tons
ERMBL - RT - 2 tons
ERMBL - LT - 2 tons
AECM - 1.5 tons
BAP - 1.5 tons
LAMS - 1.5 tons
2 Free Tons
10 HS - 10 tons
+0.5 tons of armor

E
ERLBL - RA - 5 tons
ERLBL - LA - 5 tons
Lt Gauss - RT - 12 tons
LRM15 - RT - 7 tons
LRM15 - LT - 7 tons
ERMBL - RT - 2 tons
NARC - LT- 3 tons
GECM - 1.5 tons
BHP - 1.5 tons
2 LAMS - 3 tons
C3 - 2 tons
4 Free Tons
2 DHS - 2 tons
+0.5 tons of armor

Consequently, if you want to try an Atlas with a standard engine mechanic, I heartily suggest a version of the Atlas 7D and to make it sub 92k C-bills. That would make it a good and affordable damage sponge.

Atlas 7D
MBL - RA - 2 tons
MBL - LA - 2 tons
AC20 - RT - 14 tons
SRM6 - RT - 3 tons
LRM20 - LT - 10 tons
MBL - RT - 2 tons
MBL - LT - 2 tons
5 Free Tons
6 HS - 6 tons

A version with advanced technology (i.e. a variant designed from the ground up to be the best sponge possible with a standard engine) could look like this.

Atlas 7D Upgrade
ERMBL - RA - 2 tons
ERMBL - LA - 2 tons
UAC20 - RT - 14 tons
MRM20 - RT - 7 tons
MRM20 - LT - 7 tons
ERMBL - RT - 2 tons
ERMBL - LT - 2 tons
4 Free Tons
2 LAMS - 3 tons
3 DHS - 3 tons

(Edit: Changed the Prime to be closer to canon 3050 version)

[ELH_Vivicector]

I believe, the standard engine idea can work with criticals system. But until that - yes, it is quite bad.

May be... Atlas  can get a CT armour boost because of that engine? Simple +4k can change things...

[Mekabuser=12thVR=]

+ for thread.
love everything Ive seen especially price decrease/armor buff. even if it means bending the rules.
The Atlas IS the iconic mech, and it needs to be on the battlefield. The problem is that its huge, and NEEDS to be huge.
THats not very practical in "real life" so adjustments have to be made in order for people to take it.
Now , its not like it has no firepower, so an atlas with a shitload of armor,basically it should be the most difficult asset by far to take out, with a nice sensor suite,suddenly rounding the corner should give "most" assets a reason to panic.
DIversity on the field is this mods great strength. How awesome is it to see uziels out there now? Not exactly the best mech but all things considered<especially the price> I field them.
Ramp up the damage sponge, and lower the price, alot, and a mech that really isnt a good design suddenly has a useful place on the battlefield.
zombie mech... love the concept

p.s. and so what if noobs get em and die?that happens with most assets.

[(TLL) Heretic]

A few tweaks to the weapons pods and we're golden with the Atlas IMO.

The Arm Pod size should be increased (such big arms should at least be able to carry a Gauss or U/AC20 or 2UAC5 or 2PPC, for example).
The Center Torso should have a "4small, 2med or 1 large" weapon pod added.
And the Hip mounting might also be worth increasing in size (iHGauss would be a nice option for the "main" gun).

So instead of having 1 arm pod that can carry 1 PPC or ERLBL or 2 mediums, we have arms that can carry 1AC20 or 2PPCs (or 4 medium lasers).

Now you can have Monster Atlas builds with the 52ton space available, 4LXPL and some MRMs with lots of AMS and DHS? Sure, why not...8ERmediums some SRMs and a LB-20X?  possible also and so on.

The problem IS NOT the Atlas armour or speed it's the fact that the weapon slots are few and mostly too small to pack in the desired firepower that the Atlas, with ~50tons of weapons space, can bring.

Yes, we need a Cheap Atlas, but only 1!  Yes we need a Command Atlas, but only 1!  What we need more of are the raw DPS Atlas...and  that needs bigger slots....I'd prefer that change anyday to some Jihad-era nonsense armour buff 

[Wraythe]

Also consider that the community is having "new toy syndrome" with both the Blood Asp and the Fafnir.  Further one of the most populated servers right now, Huntress, also chooses to enable "League Mode" to circumvent the c-bill transfer limitations for connected players.  As such it is relatively easy to achieve ANY top-end 'Mech simply by asking for large-sum c-bill transfers from 2-3 other players.
 
All of the above said we are going to increase the pricing for the Fafnir and Blood Asp to appropriately price their performance relative to other platforms.

Pricing them higher does not suddenly make the other mechs worth taking. You have introduced better assault mech variants than what existed previous. People are not going to stop saving and buy an atlas unless they want an atlas. They aren't going to want an atlas unless it's useful. I understand that just upping cbill cost of the chassis is a 2 sec fix, but that does nothing for the mechs that have variants taken out of early era BT having to compete against late era mechs.

[Mekabuser=12thVR=]

this and the above.
Heretic, it is a big lumbering target tho, no matter what you put on it firepower wise.
cheap damage sponge makes it attractive to many,

[EagleFire]

May I also suggest a very slight armor relocation to the right torso of the Atlas across the board? Right now it is the primary target no matter what. You remove 2-3 weapons from it including the lone assault slot leaving it with a loadout less than most light mechs in MWLL.

[Taemien]

Hmm drop the chassis price on the atlas, Move its armor up by 15% in all locations.

That would be an utter monster. Still not on par with the Fafnir or BloodAsp. But it would fulfill the role it was intended for. To make the other team go "aww f---, an Atlas..."

[Kelmola]

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm still under the assumption that MRMs are not supposed to track NARCs at all, and them doing so is considered a bug...?
...or am I missinformed?

We had a lengthy discussion about this in the MRM thread. Long story short, CBT MRM's are unguided rockets, standard SRM's have (at least rudimentary) homing systems and will happily follow NARC. while MWLL MRM's are SACLOS with limited NARC following capacity, while standard SRM's are unguided rockets (to differentiate between SRM and SSRM - preventing Streaks from firing if they have not locked on yet as CBT does the difference would lead to a hueg amount of FFFUUUU).