TC_Flatlands Update (March 1st): V2.5 Release!

[Snow Gibbon]

Happy too share the tips.

What I really need is someone to play test with for this one...

Let me guess one of those tips by that pic^.  How to change the ocean material?  BTW those waves look out of place in a desert, even if it is windy.

I can save the trouble. On the rollup bar select the terrain tab, then select "Environment". Should be under the Ocean section.

[~SJ~ Blhurr]

I was hired at crytek

Holy crap! Congratulations!

Grats dude. You deserve it.

[Squibby]

A few issues based on a run we had on the 2.2 version.

The West side hanger bay is all borked, the walls have no thickness and you can shoot straight through it. Also spawning 3 hovers in it at once causes much lulz.

There are quite a few little terrain anomolies that cause tanks to stop dead every few meters.

The giant tortoise's physics are off, their trajectory should be flatter...

There is a geodesic dome on one of the central bases (near the lake) which slowly devours hovercraft, and is filled with dead seagulls and chickens... At one point it had claimed 3 of our team members (Snow Gibbon, Bobby and I). With much struggling Snow managed to drop into the nether sea that resides underneath the dome, he was never seen again....

[linkinfrost]

A few issues based on a run we had on the 2.2 version.

The West side hanger bay is all borked, the walls have no thickness and you can shoot straight through it. Also spawning 3 hovers in it at once causes much lulz.

There are quite a few little terrain anomolies that cause tanks to stop dead every few meters.

The giant tortoise's physics are off, their trajectory should be flatter...

There is a geodesic dome on one of the central bases (near the lake) which slowly devours hovercraft, and is filled with dead seagulls and chickens... At one point it had claimed 3 of our team members (Snow Gibbon, Bobby and I). With much struggling Snow managed to drop into the nether sea that resides underneath the dome, he was never seen again....

Thanks for the feedback Squibby. I'm releasing 2.3 now based on what I saw in the playtest last night. Here are the changes:
- Visibility is improved slightly. Tree's also appear further out (as sprites so no impact on FPS).
- Fixed the broken hangers (replaced with working ones).
- Domes no longer eat people, hovercraft, mechs, chickens.
- Applied smoothing to all of the roads for tanks. Note, if you go off-roading in a tank, be prepared to get stuck, that's the mech advantage.
- Updated the mini-map with better notes on what each grid gives.

[^sPikE-]

Excellent map! Had a blast yesterday. Feels like something different than TC

[linkinfrost]

We're playing on =KoS= Bulldog now and could definitely use some more players to seed the server!

[Squibby]

I can't believe you STILL haven't fixed the tortoise trajectory problem... It's completely ruining the game for me! /0.5.4HarraserDRantModeOff



looking forward to trying it again, sans harrasser-eating geodesic domes

[linkinfrost]

Has this map gone up on huntress yet. Any feedback?

[Bloodycrow]

I got to play it some on Bulldog, and I have nothing but good things to say about the map.

First of all, the gameplay design is brilliance. Someone said before that it's practically a new gamemode, and that the battles and captures flow much more smoothly.

The labeling for the area bonus' is fantastic and easy to understand. The large amount of added foliage really makes the map pop and give it life while still retaining the dry and deadness of the climate. In short; it feels real.

The base placements and rocky BA-Nests scattered about are smartly placed, and give a great mix of movement cover and open firing lines.

The only complaints I do have would be toward the forest of small trees and one of the smaller bases BA spawn. The trees repeat too often and are so perfectly spaced they look artificial, but that forest isn't in one of the capture grids, so it's really a small complaint. The BA spawn has a bunch of stuff inside like boxes and bunkbeds and stuff that really kills my framerate.

Otherwise, the map runs great on even my shitty computer. I really do enjoy this map.

[Waffnuffly]

Not at all a fan of the capturable turret bases. They make air support almost impossible for the losing team, which in the previous version of the map was an excellent tool to use for making comebacks. Now, as soon as someone controls most of the terrain, you're basically screwed from the air. And from the ground, the enemy automatically deals bonus damage to you if you get near them when they hang out by their new friends. It might not be as bad if there were no large lasers or Calliopes, but even a ton of medium laser towers just give too much advantage to whoever controls the area. The range extends well into adjacent sectors as far as I can tell, making it easier for whoever controls the turrets to attack other areas.

Basically, turrets ruin good TC maps pretty much across the board, IMO. I can't think of a single map that absolutely NEEDS them aside from maybe Death Valley. Really want to like this map as the visuals are fantastic, but the gameplay from what I've seen is almost entirely one-sided once the positive feedback loops begin.

[linkinfrost]

Not at all a fan of the capturable turret bases. They make air support almost impossible for the losing team, which in the previous version of the map was an excellent tool to use for making comebacks. Now, as soon as someone controls most of the terrain, you're basically screwed from the air. And from the ground, the enemy automatically deals bonus damage to you if you get near them when they hang out by their new friends. It might not be as bad if there were no large lasers or Calliopes, but even a ton of medium laser towers just give too much advantage to whoever controls the area. The range extends well into adjacent sectors as far as I can tell, making it easier for whoever controls the turrets to attack other areas.

Basically, turrets ruin good TC maps pretty much across the board, IMO. I can't think of a single map that absolutely NEEDS them aside from maybe Death Valley. Really want to like this map as the visuals are fantastic, but the gameplay from what I've seen is almost entirely one-sided once the positive feedback loops begin.

Interesting feedback Waffnuffy - I appreciate it... This definitely doesn't need to be the final version of the map - so don't hesitate to make suggestions that would improve playability for future version.

I keep hearing mixed reviews on the turrets that range from - it's adds an entirely new strategy element that I love, to I hate the turrets and never will play this map again unless you take them off.

Here is my personal take on the base turrets. Note, I'm waiting for some sustained play testing and feedback before taking action on it:
- The large lasers are a bit much - reaching as far as they do can be a real pain the ass. It may be enough to replace one or both of the large lasers with mediums (although that would mean all base turrets could be popped with complete immunity by a ER Medium laser at that point).
- The flipside is that the turrets are total wimps. You can pop any of them with a single LRM10 volley from a balloon vtol. The range on them is less than impressive at 700m which means any mech with LRMs can pop them safely. Once destroyed they dont respawn again for 5 minutes. If you REALLY hate them, you can destroy your own so that if the enemy team takes the grid - you wont need to worry about them.
- There are 'safe zones' in every grid where you can capture the grid without being in line of site of the bases. These safe zones are on more than one corner of each grid, giving you lots of flanking options. One of my favorite things to do playing on the map was run around the outside through the treeline to behind the enemy - if you're passive they'll never see you doing it. You can actually stay in the tree's all the way to the enemies backside capture grids. You'd be amazed at how easy it is to flank on Flatlands.

[Waffnuffly]

I can understand wanting more feedback. I'll keep playing it and see if I notice anything different after more games.

The main problem I have with turrets isn't so much their damage output and range as it is their pinpoint 100% accuracy against everything, which is why everyone hates Eagle Eyes so much. This extreme accuracy makes air support REALLY difficult in contested sectors. And while most aircraft can outrange the turrets pretty easily, how often does an aircraft stay in one place? I often fly very low to the ground in VTOLs to capture territory as well as shoot at enemies on the ground. I almost never balloon because it's boring and not even very useful (can't capture territory and accuracy is dramatically lessened for everything except LRMs, which I almost never use in the air).

If there was some way to make the turrets incapable of hitting air, then we'd have something going. Similarly, this might make air too good against turrets, so here's an idea: enclose the turrets in some kind of armored bunker that only allows firing at certain angles -- i.e. mostly just forwards -- and not in all 360 degrees. This would give aircraft a harder time killing turrets while making them less effective against them, but also keep them useful against ground without being godlike. You could even add enough blind spots for BAs to sneak in and hose them down with the heavy laser (like you can do on TC_Mirage at the middle bases).

[linkinfrost]

I like that idea a lot. The eagle eye turrets in the outer grid sections have something like that going on with the rock sittings sitting behind them.

It could add an interesting dynamic if I put an enclosure around the turrets that limited their firing arc (and protected them) to only 180 degrees on their side of the base.

[Deathbane]

Honestly, remove the eagleeye turrets. They are far too powerful for what they are and wreck air support. Large beam lasers hurt enough lol.

[=KoS= Eldragon]

I'm actually a big fan of capture-able eagle eye turrets. It's just another objective to fight over, like repair pads, Ammo APCs, and mech bays. 

Captureable eagle-eyes gives the ground-pounders an objective, a reason to capture a particular base, or at least destroy the turret.   If you're a pilot and ask your team to destroy the eagle eye giving you problems, someone will usually destroy it.

It is not unreasonable for capture-able Eagle Eyes that limit a ASF pilots operational airspace, especially in a map like flatlands where you can fly low to the ground in tight circles to capture undefended grids.

Should capture-able eagle eyes be positioned in such a way to provide cover for the whole map, or multiple Eagle eyes providing overlapping cones of fire? No. 

Death Valley does this well with the north and south bases where it has eagle eyes, but there is a mountain in the way preventing them from creating a complete bubble of protection. The East/West bases are near enough the main bases that it gives your team an incentive for taking them, otherwise there isn't much point to those bases.

I really like the idea of walls covering the the turret's field of fire.  Then all turrets have clearly determined blindspots. Ideally Lasers are for ground targets, Eagle eyes are for air, and no base should have both.