De-suckifying the old assaults.

[Cloak and Dagger]

So what is going to happen to them? They need major tweaks to stay viable. What chassis or loadout changes do they need?

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

Fafnirs and Blood Asps to be priced appropriately would be a good start.

[Cloak and Dagger]

And then? By the time you can afford them, money rarely matters.

[Cloudburst]

Increasing the price of the good assets doesn't suddenly make the bad assets good.

Still, they do need a price increase.

[~SJ~MausGMR]

There are some plans in motion to make Assaults a little more competitive than they currently are, so stay tuned =)

[Defender]

Increasing the price of the good assets doesn't suddenly make the bad assets good.

Still, they do need a price increase.

I agree. We thought it would be nice for people to be able to play with the new toys over the holiday break rather than just give skilled vets all the new toys. Someone who can afford one can generally re-afford them later. Those who can't usually can't.
Prices will be readjusted accordingly in future updates.

And then?

Come up with some actual suggestions to keep it constructive rather than simply wondering aloud, especially since we have a thread similar to this already. If we hear any substantial, detailed, reasonable feedback we're more than happy to take it into consideration. Otherwise, unsubstantiated, bias conjecture will be disregarded.

[Cloudburst]

I know King Leer read this thread, so you might want to give it a look yourself. Specifically about what's wrong with the Atlas.

Mostly, I think the Atlas needs variant & cost re-evaluation.

The outlined express problem with the Mauler and Awesome is it really doesn't feel like they have enough armor to justify their slow speed, but that has been how it is for awhile, and, generally, for that long while, they've been tolerable.

... but Mad Cat MKII? OH LORD GIVE THE PRIME FREE TONS, OH LAWDY LAWDY!

... *cough* tbh the MKII should get the same aforementioned treatment of variant & cost re-evaluation. Though, giving the Prime free tons will instantly make it god-tier-good-worth-the-money, sparing the head being the thing that dies before the torso does.

[=KoS=Zeus]

Firstly, you need to look at what makes the Blood Asp and Fafnir so good. Is it pod space, armor, speed, pod types?

The Blood Asp, weighing in at 90 tons, should have equivalent pod space, armor, speed, and pod types to the Madcat MKII, which also weighs in at 90 tons. Perhaps the MKII is slightly undergunned since it has been around since 0.1 and might have been built with fudged build rules unlike the more recent Blood Asp. Perhaps it is simply given a "better" mix of weapons because the devs loved it that much more and have had all the more time to play MWLL and figure out what weapon combos = death incarnate.

The Fafnir, weighing in at 100 tons, should have equivalent pod space, armor, speed, and pod types to the Atlas, which also weighs in at 100 tons. It has 2 siege slots, 2 assault, and 2 mediums while the atlas has 1 siege, 2 assault, 2 mediums and 2 missile slots. The Atlas has already been stated to carry a standard engine instead of an XL engine, so that goes a long way toward why the Atlas feels so much more undergunned than his Fafnir cousin, he's carrying ~20% less pod space.

So for the clans, I don't see the Blood Asp as being better than the MKII other than the weapon configs it has were just given more recent and more loving attention by the devs. The Fafnir, on the other hand, simply outguns the Atlas because it has more pod space and better pods. The Atlas being forced to use LRMs instead of mounting another LB20X or a Gauss Rifle means that it has a harder time concentrating damage with one big smack, where as the Fafnir is designed to do just that.

At the end of the day, it comes down to what the asset is designed to do. The Fafnir is designed to plod toward the enemy and punish anything that gives it more than one shot at it with the dual HGauss, while the Atlas is sort of designed to plod with the rest of his lance, provide AECM, LAMS, some LRM support, and punish anything that gets close with his LB20X. If the Atlas Prime had an XL engine those LRM-5s could be upgraded to LRM-10s, the PPCs to ERPPCs, some extra heat sinks thrown on it to keep it cool, the medium pulse replaced with ERMBLs, and the LB20X replaced by a Gauss Rifle. Then its role as a lance command mech would be much more obvious while leaving the close range rushing to the Fafnir or other Atlas variants.

I remember back in 0.1 the Atlas Prime had a load out very similar to the above, which also happens to be close to the canon 3050 Prime version (ERLBL instead of ERPPCs) but for whatever reason it was replaced with the LB20X version.

The sad truth is, as much as I like the mixed role mechs, the majority of players don't. They want something that can fire all its weapons out to the same distance, with the same travel time, and the same recycle time, with no ammunition or heat concerns, and that's pretty much what the new assault mechs are really good at doing.

[Rally]

Can we really know if the new assaults are priced correctly when it's for sure that some of the old ones are overpriced and the new ones are bought more often than they would otherwise be just because they're the new thing?

[=KoS=Zeus]

As for the Awesome, unless it is carrying 5.5 extra tons of armor or EOptics weighs a hell of a lot, that thing is also not using an XL engine, at least as far as I can reverse engineer using CBT as a guide.

One thing that would help the Awesome would be to give it a 320XL engine (basically, its speed would go up to 64kph and everything else would stay the same). This would be a great help for the IS as anything over 75 tons for them plods along at 53kph.

The other option is to give it a 240XL engine instead of the standard. This would give it an extra 5.5 tons to work with which could be used to slot in additional torso mount weapons, or perhaps beef up the prime's left arm weaponry so that it carries a second ERLBL (or maybe slot the lasers into the left torso and move an ERPPC to the left arm if the pods don't work out). This would give the IS an equivalent to the Novacat Prime. Other variants can load up extra heat sinks (turning it into a real energy boat) or add things like MASC to give the IS a speedy assault as above. It carries lots of heat sinks so MASC is a natural and obvious choice. (75kph Awesome comin' atcha!).

Without making it simply mirror the Novacat I would suggest giving some variants a left arm with some backup weapons. Something like a trio of ERMBLs or Pulses, or maybe an LB10X, or even a DSRM-6 on there to dissuade light and medium mechs from getting to close. Also, since it seems apparent from the "A" variant, that the Awesome can carry 2 Heavy weapons in the torsos (and it seems possible that those can be filled by Mediums) you could, theoretically, give the Awesome a pair of medium lasers or light autocannons to supplement its long range energy load out.

5.5 extra tons and some wiggle room in the torsos gives the Awesome some exciting options, as does simply giving it 64kph from a 320XL engine.

[Quintilian]

There are some plans in motion to make Assaults a little more competitive than they currently are, so stay tuned =)

I really hope you don't mean all assaults!

It is really nice to have a system like the current one, where most of the player base can get to enjoy the more expensive assets. However, I still feel that for standard public games heavy and assaults need to be worked for and considered 'endgame'.

I agree with those asking for a review of cbil cost per asset. However, as already suggested, by the time you have enough cbils for the proposed new costs (perhaps 300k for bloodasps?), gain in cbils occurs at such a rate as to make the revised upwards costs meaningless. Ergo, I would suggest what is really required is an overhaul of the cbil reward system generally, in addition to revising the costs of the Fafnir and Bloodasp

[whatever]

maybe just a price reduction would help the older assaults to stay in the fight..another option is to tweak the

weapons/equipment/armor balance a bit just keep in mind not to be heavy handed...

i for one just hope the game isnt going to be planetside over-balanced (nerfed-buffed to lameness)

just check good ol planetside for very bad balanceing...

[NSallaNuto]

I support the idea to make the Awesome a bit faster while keeping its price low, this could be done by giving DHS to all versions and reducing the total number, the saved weight would go in the engine upgrade.

It must not necessarily be good as the best assaults but it could find its own niche (which I think it already partially has).

The Mauler is already good, it could use some extra armor.

[lordgrog]

(perhaps 300k for bloodasps?)

WTH, 300k?
Here I was, thinking of a chassis cost increase of mebbe 10/13k for Fappy and 15/20k for the BlAsp (which would price them at around the same level 150/160k ballpark - except for the strangely overpriced dual CERPPC varient). They're really not that much better armed than the old assaults (or everyone's favourite raep engine the MC-B). MK2-B, Mauler-E and Gunslinger especially are packing similar firepower at a little over 100k and the Siege Engine is still king of it's range bracket for the same.

AWESOME:

One thing that would help the Awesome would be to give it a 320XL engine (basically, its speed would go up to 64kph and everything else would stay the same).

+1 The Awesome's somewhat undergunned and could really use a little extra spice - this would make a real nice differentiator. Pricing's ok, the best varient imo (quad LXPL) is under 100k which is fine. Although I do think you'd usually be better off with a Warhammer, Thanatos or clan heavy for similar money it's certainly not overpriced.

MAULER:
The Mauler's got some great loadouts, and is priced pretty well (I would say slightly underpriced if it weren't for a couple of MK2 configs). It's big problem is it's glass jaw, reallocating some armor to the side torsos would go a long way to increasing it's battlefield effectiveness.

MK2:
The MK2's mostly fine. Really. The cockpit could possibly transfer slightly more damage to torso, but that's it. Even the prime's fine, I use it all the time (free tons would be fantastic but that's easily sorted when mechlab comes). Pricing is sorta ok (sorta, 'cus of the bargain MK2-B and Siege Engine).

ATLAS:
Atlas's biggest problem is the varients on offer - Mechlab will fix. Pricing is fine at current levels. In the Atlas thread there was mention of enhanced durability thanks to a standard fusion engine. If that works out well with the crit system, noticeably greater surviveabilty despite similar armour values versus the Fafnir, combined with the option to mount fancy electronics would nicely differentiate MWLL's 100 tonners and compensate for the Atlas's weaker loadouts/fewer mounts. As much as I liked Mechwarrior 2 the mechs had no individual flavour, one 80-tonner was exactly the same as another 80-tonner.

[Come and See]

Haven't had a chance to try the new variants (damn you SWTOR!).