Exercise: Catapult Variants D + E

[Cloudburst]

I've been pushing for something like the D for awhile. Of course, this is how I would build it provided it may have LOL40TONS:

((XL Engine))
2xDSRM6
4xMedium Pulse Lasers
2 free tons
Must take Jump-Jets because it's a Catapult
10 in-engine single Heat-Sinks
7 external single heat-sinks
MASC

Assuming it's just a Catapult, not with an XL Engine, we have something like this:
2xDSRM6
4xMedium Pulse Lasers
2 free tons
Jump Jets
1 extra heat-sink
(no MASC)

As far as an E goes, I would prefer:
NARC Missile Launcher (torso)
MRM20
MRM30
3xERSBL
3 free tons
JJ
(extra armor)

[Bobby]

They just don't get you do they Zeus? lol

I actually like them both, and anything to encourage teamplay is great by me. More often than not, and depending who I'm playing with, I'll usually take the same asset as the person I plan on teaming up with just to either compliment their mech or vehicle, or just plain ol' double the fire power. It's very effective at times. And I think with the Catapult E, as you've already explained, is a fantastic way of providing a reason to do this more often while still keeping the battlefield and the tactical gameplay dynamic.

[Arghy]

The thing is if you picked an A4 equipped mech your going to use every meter of that 3000m range--running with the group when you have a weapon that can reach out and touch someone kinda negates the point of that weapon. Lets also not go into the fact that if that group gets torn limb from limb your also getting torn limb from limb but if you are hanging back you can rain missiles down on their killers.

Lets face it if your being engaged by an enemy mech at MRM range theres a good chance he'll be inside your A4 min range before you can lock and unlike you hes specialized to that range.

[=KoS=Zeus]

Ok, here is an exercise which will be argued by many as a gross simplification of how MWLL battles actually work. However, until such time as we have an asset that can perform like my suggested Catapult 'E', I don't think we can determine its true effectiveness in a true MWLL environment. I ask only that people consider the following as a very basic assessment of what mechs normally do in MWLL and how the Catapult E can break that mold.

2 opposing Lances.

Lance 1 = 4 Catapult 'E's
Lance 2 = 1 Catapult P, 1 Catapult A, 1 Catapult B, 1 Catapult C

- Lance 2 detects Lance 1 first and begins with a barrage of 2 ELRM15s and 2 Arrow IVs at ~1500m range. Meanwhile Catapult A and B move forward to engage.
- Lance 1 spots the incoming missiles and the combined 4 LAMS go to work on the ELRMs, swatting a majority of them down. The Arrows locked onto 1 Catapult 'E' is easily dodged with jump jets.
- Lance 1 now returns fire, chain firing 4 Arrow IVs back at the enemy Catapult C. Lance 2 lacks enough LAMS to shoot down even 1 Arrow and the Catapult C manages to dodge 2 of the 4 Arrows with his jump jets, but 2 hit home, crippling him.
- Lance 2's Catapult A and B get into PPC and MRM range and fire on Lance 1 with a combined 80 MRMs and 2 PPCs. In response, Lance 1 returns fire with 120 MRMs.
- As Lance 2's "brawler" Catapults move into close range with Lance 1, Lance 2's Catapult Prime and Catapult C continue to fire. The Prime's ELRMs are mostly negated by the LAMSs of Lance 1, scoring a few hits here and there, while the Catapult C's target is forced to use his jump jets to avoid the incoming Arrows. Even if they coordinate so that the Arrows come in with the ELRM salvos, it is likely that only 1 Arrow will land on the target while the other is dodged with jump jets.
- As the Lance's close, Lance 2 is overwhelmed by 50% more MRMs and equivalent numbers of close range lasers, not to mention double the number of adversaries and thus double the amount of armor to deal with. If only the Catapult Prime's 4 MBLs were available to help out, but sadly he is 1000 meters behind his lance mates firing missiles that are mostly ineffectual. In a short while the Catapult B is a smoking ruin, followed by one Catapult 'E' (the one that was hit by some Arrows during all of this). With 3 vs 1 in the brawl, the Catapult A goes down quickly.
- Lance 2 continues to fire ELRMs and Arrows at the remaining 3 Catapult 'E's, the LAMS still doing a good job on the ELRMs, and the pair of Arrows, even chain fired, being effectively countered by jump jets. With the enemy brawlers out of the way, the Catapult 'E's can press forward under cover of their own Arrow launchers, ripple firing them at the Catapult C so he can only dodge 1 of the 3. The other 2 connect and destroy him.
- Now there is 1 Catapult Prime versus 3 Catapult Es.

[Cloudburst]

You forget the part where the MRMs do jack shit because no one has a NARC. The 4 Catapult E's would still win, though, but mostly because the other catapults don't have enough LAMS. The Cat E's would never have to get close to win, and because everyone on the field is a Catapult with no MASC, they could always stay as far away as they wanted.


If you're going to go that far with the Cat E, I would instead do it like this:
1x Arrow IV Launcher
1xDSSRM6
4 ER MBLs
JJ
LAMS
Maybe even MASC
>Basically, it's a Owens B and Owens C with an Arrow IV strapped to it.

Though, honestly, that is overweight. A Catapult just can't fit that much stuff, and never should.

But, hey, you know what would be fun and silly?

Catapult D - Nickname: Catawhaaat?
1xAC20 (Right Arm) (Not trying to argue a Catapult should be able to fit ballistics, but, lol)
1xDSRM4 (Left arm)
2xMedium Pulse Lasers
2xER Small Beam Lasers
10 in-engine single heat sinks
5 external single heat-sinks
MASC
Jump Jets
Extra half ton of armor
2 Free Tons for ammo
((Endo-Steel, XL Engine))
Fun Fact: This chassis has exactly 0 free tons and 0 free crits in CBT.

That's in a situation where the Catapult is so modified... and I'd love that machine like no other Catapult.

[Arghy]

Ok, here is an exercise which will be argued by many as a gross simplification of how MWLL battles actually work. However, until such time as we have an asset that can perform like my suggested Catapult 'E', I don't think we can determine its true effectiveness in a true MWLL environment. I ask only that people consider the following as a very basic assessment of what mechs normally do in MWLL and how the Catapult E can break that mold.

2 opposing Lances.

Lance 1 = 4 Catapult 'E's
Lance 2 = 1 Catapult P, 1 Catapult A, 1 Catapult B, 1 Catapult C

- Lance 2 detects Lance 1 first and begins with a barrage of 2 ELRM15s and 2 Arrow IVs at ~1500m range. Meanwhile Catapult A and B move forward to engage.
- Lance 1 spots the incoming missiles and the combined 4 LAMS go to work on the ELRMs, swatting a majority of them down. The Arrows locked onto 1 Catapult 'E' is easily dodged with jump jets.
- Lance 1 now returns fire, chain firing 4 Arrow IVs back at the enemy Catapult C. Lance 2 lacks enough LAMS to shoot down even 1 Arrow and the Catapult C manages to dodge 2 of the 4 Arrows with his jump jets, but 2 hit home, crippling him.
- Lance 2's Catapult A and B get into PPC and MRM range and fire on Lance 1 with a combined 80 MRMs and 2 PPCs. In response, Lance 1 returns fire with 120 MRMs.
- As Lance 2's "brawler" Catapults move into close range with Lance 1, Lance 2's Catapult Prime and Catapult C continue to fire. The Prime's ELRMs are mostly negated by the LAMSs of Lance 1, scoring a few hits here and there, while the Catapult C's target is forced to use his jump jets to avoid the incoming Arrows. Even if they coordinate so that the Arrows come in with the ELRM salvos, it is likely that only 1 Arrow will land on the target while the other is dodged with jump jets.
- As the Lance's close, Lance 2 is overwhelmed by 50% more MRMs and equivalent numbers of close range lasers, not to mention double the number of adversaries and thus double the amount of armor to deal with. If only the Catapult Prime's 4 MBLs were available to help out, but sadly he is 1000 meters behind his lance mates firing missiles that are mostly ineffectual. In a short while the Catapult B is a smoking ruin, followed by one Catapult 'E' (the one that was hit by some Arrows during all of this). With 3 vs 1 in the brawl, the Catapult A goes down quickly.
- Lance 2 continues to fire ELRMs and Arrows at the remaining 3 Catapult 'E's, the LAMS still doing a good job on the ELRMs, and the pair of Arrows, even chain fired, being effectively countered by jump jets. With the enemy brawlers out of the way, the Catapult 'E's can press forward under cover of their own Arrow launchers, ripple firing them at the Catapult C so he can only dodge 1 of the 3. The other 2 connect and destroy him.
- Now there is 1 Catapult Prime versus 3 Catapult Es.

I dont even know what your trying to say but cata's are awesome.

[General_Armchair]

Honestly, I'd be happy with the following as a catapult.

JJ's
NARC launcher  (can we fit this in the torso?  If not, can we squeeze it into an arm pod alongside a downsized MRM launcher?)
As many MRMs as I can fit in the remaining podspace.
A reload for the MRMs and if possible a reload for the NARC.
Anything left over goes into GECM, armor, and heatsinks.

[whatever]

the game needs the LONGBOW and the ARCHER possibly the NAGA also

these are some awsome long distance lrm/arrow launcer mechs..(that need to rigged and made for the game  )

[Xesle]

I don't think this mod needs any more missile boat assets added, the camping is bad enough as it is in most TSA games, and in half of the TC games I play, one team will try and play like it is TSA mode and get stomped into the ground. I especially hate it when it is my team that does that and I end up being the only player trying to capture bases.

[General_Armchair]

I'll agree that long range missile duels are boring, but I'd like to see that MASC/SRM catapult.  SRM's are pretty under-represented in the mech lineup.

[Cloudburst]

Indeed. Catapult+at least 20 SRM's+MASC.