new atm mechs

[Nemo]

What do you think?

I see this and I hear "LA-LA-LA-LA I'm not listening!"

Sorry, but true. Look around, they've said they intend to change lams. Hell, he said in this thread, right there where you quoted him, there are changes to lams (and heat) and they're not ready. I'd ask what you want but I know. I'd ask when do you want it, but its now.

[Ressk [CSF]]

back on topic of new ATM mechs (or at least what i think the topic is anyway), ATM's when fitted are one of my favorites in the 700m support zone of combat. as for new, i think that when more clan assets arrive, we will see the new ATM mechs. the puma ATM is god, the Cougar ATM is also nice, the uller has none and does not need it, the SCAT lacks missiles in general, the madcat is god with its ATM variant, the vulture boater HURTS bad but i rarely see it, the novacat has no missiles, and finally the MK2 is again a god with its ATM loadout. as for the thor and loki, ive never really used them.

hell i think ATMs and their loadouts are pretty good asides from issues allready raised that will be fixed and finished sooner than i would expect probably.

[xInVicTuSx]

Atms support weapons? I will have none of this.

The Cougar and my beloved MKII-D (RIP) can brawl and advance to their hearts content because even if someone is humping you a full blast of JJs backward WILL get you to 150m and you can give them a face full of ATMs that any LAMS have no time to thin out due to the flight time being so short.

[KingLeerUK]

AMS is up for review here shortly.  Expect some changes.
 
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[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

So please, by all means, keep crying that your clan missile launchers aren't balanced. For fappssake, you are mounting them at half weight already, isn't that enough cheese?

Source please? (as pertaining to MWLL)

[Flow]

What do you think?

I see this and I hear "LA-LA-LA-LA I'm not listening!"

Sorry, but true. Look around, they've said they intend to change lams. Hell, he said in this thread, right there where you quoted him, there are changes to lams (and heat) and they're not ready. I'd ask what you want but I know. I'd ask when do you want it, but its now.

Defender made no specific remarks in regards to either issue, and I prefer not to assume things when people speak so generally. Anyway, here is a picture of a slice of pie.


Share some with me?

[=KoS=Zeus]

So please, by all means, keep crying that your clan missile launchers aren't balanced. For fappssake, you are mounting them at half weight already, isn't that enough cheese?

Source please? (as pertaining to MWLL)

Well, it starts with looking at the tonnage of an asset, and then what it mounts, and finding a comparable asset on the clan side, and then doing some reverse engineering using what little we know of the build system (which is mainly based around CBT weights for the most part).

My source, thus, is a combination of what the devs have revealed and some common design sense.

I did, however, notice that something seemed off with some of the designs using LRMs and started digging.

My best guess is that the Inner Sphere gets LRMs at 75% weight and that Clans are mounting them at only 50% weight. Here are a few examples that work, the Owens is just impossibly overweight:

Bushwacker C
Chassis = 55 tons
Internal Structure - Standard = 5.5 tons
Engine - 275 XL = 8 tons
Gyro = 3 tons
Cockpit = 3 tons
Armor = 9 tons
Pod Space = 26.5 tons (this variant is 0.5 tons overweight with 75% weight LRMs)
ERLBL - RA = 5 tons
ERLBL - RT = 5 tons
Machine Gun - CT = 1.25 tons (0.25 tons + 1 ton for ammo - I assume all Machine Guns are the 1/4 ton clan version)
Machine Gun - CT = 1.25 tons (0.25 tons + 1 ton for ammo - I assume all Machine Guns are the 1/4 ton clan version)
LRM15 - LPod = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - The LRM15 normally weighs 7 tons, at 75% weight it would be closer to 5 tons)
LRM15 - LA = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - The LRM15 normally weighs 7 tons, at 75% weight it would be closer to 5 tons)
LAMS = 1.5 tons
BAP = 1 ton

Vulture Prime
Chassis = 60 tons
Internal Structure - Standard = 6 tons
Engine - 300 XL = 9.5 tons
Gyro = 3 tons
Cockpit = 3 tons
Armor = 9.5 tons (because ferro-fibrous armor isn't in MWLL, 1 ton of armor was added to the vulture at the expense of a heat sink)
Pod Space = 30 tons
CLPL - RA = 6 tons
CMPL - RA = 2 tons
CLPL - LA = 6 tons
CMPL - LA = 2 tons
CLRM20 - RT = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - The LRM20 normally weighs 10 tons, at 50% weight it would be 5 tons)
CLRM20 - LT = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - The LRM20 normally weighs 10 tons, at 50% weight it would be 5 tons)
1 DHS = 1 ton (1 heat sink was sacrificed from the CBT version to armor the vulture closer to its canon values)

Mauler Prime
Chassis = 90 tons
Internal Structure - Standard = 9 tons
Engine - 270 XL = 7.5 tons
Gyro = 3 tons
Cockpit = 3 tons
Armor = 16.5 tons (because ferro-fibrous armor isn't in MWLL, and the Mauler is a huge target, 5 tons of armor are to make it more survivable)
Pod Space = 51 tons
ERLBL - RA = 5 tons
ERLBL - LA = 5 tons
UAC/2 - RT = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - the devs have stated some of the lighter ballistic weapons have had a weight reduction, so UAC2s drop by 25%)
UAC/2 - RT = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - the devs have stated some of the lighter ballistic weapons have had a weight reduction, so UAC2s drop by 25%)
UAC/2 - LT = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - the devs have stated some of the lighter ballistic weapons have had a weight reduction, so UAC2s drop by 25%)
UAC/2 - LT = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - the devs have stated some of the lighter ballistic weapons have had a weight reduction, so UAC2s drop by 25%)
LRM15 - LT = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - The LRM15 normally weighs 7 tons, at 75% weight it would be closer to 5 tons)
LRM15 - RT = 6 tons (5 tons + 1 ton for ammo - The LRM15 normally weighs 7 tons, at 75% weight it would be closer to 5 tons)
BAP = 1 ton
1 DHS = 1 ton
3 Free Tons

Those seem to work out well, but I have no clue how ELRMs are set up. I just couldn't get the Catapult Prime to work out right.

[~SJ~ Xarg Talasko]

All of which is about as valid as me assuming that MWLL variants are roughly 12% overweight in SSW. That said, I'd be surprised if MPL was only 2 tons since MBL is that weight.

[Spooky]

I never knew what the max range was before, but it was always common knowledge that LRMs went far beyond their listed range (whereas ATMs just explode the moment they hit it...).

LRMs did not went far beyond 1000m. Their theoretical max range was 1300m, but due to the arc it was only more like 1100. Now the theoretical max range is 1700m. The theoretical max range of ELRMs is 1840 btw.

I've seen ELRMs used to irritatingly high effectiveness in the past. They might not do outrageous amounts of damage, but being able to do that damage from what is effectively complete safety isn't that bad. It's the same reason the LRMmoth is so fapping lame. Beep beep beep! Beep beep beep! Beep beep beep! Beep beep beep!

It's not "bad", but it's also not as effective as you make it out to be.

[(TLL) Heretic]

@ Frostiken: Actually, clan combat doctrine is, first and foremost, not to waste war materiel. In the pursuit of that ideal, clan mechwarriors engage the enemy at maximum range and use their superior speed to remain beyond the range of enemy retaliation. So, in that respect, yes, clan mechs with LRMs are very much designed to stand on hillsides launching salvos of LRMs at people, along with ER PPCs, Lasers, and Gauss Rifles. In fact, the 4 iconic Clan Heavy Prime designs epitomize this combat doctrine by giving them long range weapons with significant punch and only a handful of backup close range weapons for when the going gets tough.

Vulture - 2 CLRM20s, 2 CLPL - The Vulture is designed to shred armor off of you with the pulse lasers and then launch a salvo of LRMs to fill the holes, criting you to death, all while effortlessly maintaining range advantage with its 85kph speed.

From the canon Vulture fluff: The name also fit the battlefield role of the Mad Dog; the main role of the Mad Dog is to act as a support 'Mech, and it often holds a hill maintaining constant watch over the entire battlefield, like a vulture waiting for its prey.

Yeah, it's a Long-Mid range specialist.

*SNIP*

Just because Clan LRMs CAN be used at close range, does not mean that the combat ideology of the Clans was to run into point blank range and fire them. If it had been then the clan designs would have mounted nothing but LRMs because, for their weight, they are the hardest hitting weapons they have, bar none. Instead, their weight was chopped so that the mechs could break all the rules.

If you look at the original concept art, both the Vulture and Madcat are equipped with LRM15s, not 20s. It is my firm belief that, at the time the art was commissioned, the designers at FASA were ruling that Clan LRMs weighed ~25% less (so a Clan LRM15 would weigh roughly 5 tons instead of 7). At some point that changed and they went with half weight missile launchers across the board. So please, by all means, keep crying that your clan missile launchers aren't balanced. For fappssake, you are mounting them at half weight already, isn't that enough cheese?

QFT.  This would be a good way to go for the MWLL Mechlab, then we could buff the LRMs a little (little less lock-time and a 50m reduction in Clan LRM minimum range would be welcome gameplay improvements IMO)

TBH I like ATM Standard as it currently works but would love a hanger option to swap to1200m ATM Extended (weaker but with the 150m minimum) or 300m High Explosive (massive damage no minimum) ammunition.

LAMS changes are eagerly awaited